Fondant v syrup

[Chris Hancock]

It would not be advisable to feed syrup when there are supers on, unless that super will be used only for feeding bees who have insufficient stores in their box for winter. I am sure that would be agreed on, as none of us want to recycle syrup into supers for extraction. For winter, they need full stores of honey and pollen. The ivy is just coming out here, so I am now topping up their top brood boxes with syrup, where they have already lightened them or are really short (the small colonies, which are starting late), to avoid ivy honey fooling me into thinking they will be OK for stores, but them being unable to use that solid stuff without water collection.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

avoid ivy honey fooling me into thinking they will be OK for stores, but them being unable to use that solid stuff without water collection.

another myth - the bees will get enough water from what's in the hive already, they've coped with it for millions of years - if it was a problem they would have learnt to avoid collecting it by now.

 

[Chris Hancock]

I do know quite a few beekeepers who lost bees over winter, thinking they had enough stores, when it was ivy and hard. Having said that, it may not be such a problem as winters get warmer, or in well insulated hives. Yes, they will get some water from condensation, so that might help.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I do know quite a few beekeepers who lost bees over winter, thinking they had enough stores, when it was ivy and hard.

or just blaming it on ivy because it's easier than facing the truth

 

[Chris Hancock]

I try to keep an open mind, and listen to their experiences. There are many issues for beekeepers to face, and if experience can help them avoid some problems, it is better than just blaming them when they have problems.

 

[madasafish]

Experience is good - if relevant.
Here ivy flowers late - October or November - so it is rarely harvested as bees are not flying much.

 

[Chris Hancock]

I wish our ivy waited- it has started flowering already, here, so the bees are really intent on gathering it, so maybe that is why some people here have had this, and why a lot of us tend to top up feed in September to mix it or prevent it filling the stores. I suspect that warmer winters might mean that the bees can collect and use it, so things keep changing!

 

[JamezF]

Hmmm. So... The bees are fed syrup before the ivy gets into full flower. But the bees still go out and forage on ivy, bringing more nectar back into the hive. What, in the words of David Coleman (or Sue Barker, if you're slightly younger), happens next?

My bees seem to mostly forage on ivy at the tail end of Summer and into Autumn. I have in the past had to remove unused frames of stores from hives in the Spring to give the queen room to lay, but they're not full of unused rock-solid honey. I suspect there's much that's location-dependent involved. I've seen my bees out foraging for water at little more than 5°C in the Winter and I'd not be surprised if there's an awful lot more water in the hive than we imagine, some of which can be used to water down honey that is solid (around one fifth of the stored food will be water, after all).

I' suggest there's far too much jumping to conclusions goes on regarding ivy honey and not enough careful testing of the evidence.

James

 

[SWEET]

I do know quite a few beekeepers who...

Simple test you can try; starve a colony then stick rock solid fondant on the bars late Dec/Jan, watch what happens (or place a frame of *solid* ivy in there - (or OSR you saved from Spring)

 

[Chris Hancock]

As you will realize, there are as many opinions as there are beekeepers, so I think new beekeepers can listen/ read and make their own minds up. Yes, location is key, as are the varied weather patterns. I do recognize my own tendency to look for risks and try to prevent problems! All I am saying is, let's not have our bees starving in winter.

 

[SWEET]

You have two farmers with many hives in totally different climates both quoting the same stuff. I'm very sure the bees would not waste their time collecting resource that will end them, those traits would be rendered out of the equation if it were the case in the bigger picture.

Ref internal water supply, try a clear poly CB or look into a BS nuc (or any other) with viewing windows and you'll see plenty of water/moisture in winter.

 

[Curly green finger's]

You have two farmers with many hives in totally different climates both quoting the same stuff. I'm very sure the bees would not waste their time collecting resource that will end them, those traits would be rendered out of the equation if it were the case in the bigger picture.

Ref internal water supply, try a clear poly CB or look into a BS nuc (or any other) with viewing windows and you'll see plenty of water/moisture in winter.

Cooling condensation runs down the inside walls of the hives sometimes, so if they are drawing water vaper through the floor or entrance, it’s going to be the same sort of set up as how clouds are formed.
I’ve fed rock hard frames above the cb in the spring/autumn late winter even and it disappears.

 

[rolande]

Cooling condensation runs down the inside walls of the hives sometimes, so if they are drawing water vaper through the floor or entrance, it’s going to be the same sort of set up as how clouds are formed.
I’ve fed rock hard frames above the cb in the spring/autumn late winter even and it disappears.

But surely it doesn't disappear before nice combs of capped syrup?

 

[Curly green finger's]

But surely it doesn't disappear before nice combs of capped syrup?

I don’t have nice combs of capped syrup

 

[rolande]

I don’t have nice combs of capped syrup

That's why they eat the ivy honey then

 

[Curly green finger's]

That's why they eat the ivy honey then

Hmm I wonder

 

[Penninetrader]

Let the bees decide, they are after all much smarter than we. I give my girls all the support I can but in the end they decide.