Filling the BB with stores

[sbisme]

Can anyone give me a clue if I have done wrong or just the bees doing there own thing, I have a cast swarm that I hived back in June, they are going great guns covering 7 frames, I have treated with Maqs just over a week ago.
Inspected to see if they needed topping up with stores for winter which they did, so I have fed 4kg of 2:1 sugar syrup, there is a super on as they have drawn and filled some frames but the queen stopped laying whilst I was treating and now they are filling the brood with the syrup, my thinking is they should have put it into the super? So what's people's thoughts as the queen has little room to lay in the middle frames of the bb due to them filling with syrup.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I would stop feeding them

 

[Millet]

I would stop feeding them

Why a short sharp reply Erica.. maybe a little explanation as to why may help beginner's to remember for future reference..

 

[pargyle]

Why a short sharp reply Erica.. maybe a little explanation as to why may help beginner's to remember for future reference..

Well ... it's pretty obvious really ... the queen will still be laying up for the winter bees and if she ain't got room to lay in the brood box then she'll either lay in the super ... of if there's still a Q/Ex on then .... ermmm ... no winter bees ?

Having said that it is a balancing act and you have to watch for the Ivy flow and gauge just how much you then need to feed them and when to feed them to see them tucked up for the winter ... whilst not completely blocking the brood box with syrup ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

OK. Millet

Can anyone give me a clue if I have done wrong or just the bees doing there own thing, I have a cast swarm that I hived back in June, they are going great guns covering 7 frames, I have treated with Maqs just over a week ago.
Inspected to see if they needed topping up with stores for winter which they did, so I have fed 4kg of 2:1 sugar syrup, there is a super on as they have drawn and filled some frames but the queen stopped laying whilst I was treating and now they are filling the brood with the syrup, my thinking is they should have put it into the super? So what's people's thoughts as the queen has little room to lay in the middle frames of the bb due to them filling with syrup.

Where you say, drawn and filled SOME frames. Are all the drawn frames full? Maybe if they are that is why the bees are filling brood frames with the syrup you gave.
Are all the frames drawn in the brood box?
What is on those frames?

 

[Millet]

Well ... it's pretty obvious really ... the queen will still be laying up for the winter bees and if she ain't got room to lay in the brood box then she'll either lay in the super ... of if there's still a Q/Ex on then .... ermmm ... no winter bees ?

Having said that it is a balancing act and you have to watch for the Ivy flow and gauge just how much you then need to feed them and when to feed them to see them tucked up for the winter ... whilst not completely blocking the brood box with syrup ...

If you know or have a rough idea at what you are doing it's alway's obvious and easy.. but if you are learning it's a whole world of hurt and a different ball game.. so explanation's will help ten fold which you have just done..

 

[Millet]

OK. Millet





Where you say, drawn and filled SOME frames. Are all the drawn frames full? Maybe if they are that is why the bees are filling brood frames with the syrup you gave.
Are all the frames drawn in the brood box?
What is on those frames?

My hero.. haha .. if i was not taken for i may well have married you..

 

[sbisme]

OK. Millet





Where you say, drawn and filled SOME frames. Are all the drawn frames full? Maybe if they are that is why the bees are filling brood frames with the syrup you gave.
Are all the frames drawn in the brood box?
What is on those frames?

Yes all the super frames are drawn and around three half filled,

Yes all the brood frames are drawn with 5 off the middle frames around 80% full although I did notice eggs in a few of the 80% full frames.

I do have spare drawn brood frames so I could remove some of the brood frames that are full of syrup and swap, and later add back if required.

 

[Erichalfbee]

What I might do is
Take the super off and put it under the brood box.The bees will move the stores up into the brood box as they need it in prep for winter. It can stay there the whole winter and it will be empty at first inspection when you can take it away.
A lot of people have noticed their queens drop right off laying.

Yes all the brood frames are drawn with 5 off the middle frames around 80% full although I did notice eggs in a few of the 80% full frames.

I presume then the other 6 frames are empty....ish?

You seem to have a fair number of bees to cover brood so find the limit of your brood nest quickly and place the empty frames each side, leaving the remaining filled frames that have no brood at the periphery of your box.
Make sure you have some decent insulation on the crown board and reduce the entrance down to two or three bees.

Do you have Ivy to come? The pollen will encourage your queen to lay and the bees should fill the rest of their empty space with its nectar.

 

[pargyle]

If you know or have a rough idea at what you are doing it's alway's obvious and easy.. but if you are learning it's a whole world of hurt and a different ball game.. so explanation's will help ten fold which you have just done..

There was no implied criticism or put down in my post ... We all start out wondering what the hell the bees are up to and and continue to be confounded .. I agree that explanations (however brief or to the point) are helpful in the beginners section... less so in the grown ups bit where a degree of knowledge has to be assumed. It's very rarely obvious and easy in beekeeping .. as long as there are bees who do what they want to do rather than what the books say they 'should' or 'will' do !!

 

[Millet]

Hell yeh..

 

[sbisme]

What I might do is
Take the super off and put it under the brood box.

You seem to have a fair number of bees to cover brood so find the limit of your brood nest quickly and place the empty frames each side, leaving the remaining filled frames that have no brood at the periphery of your box.
Make sure you have some decent insulation on the crown board and reduce the entrance down to two or three bees.

Do you have Ivy to come? The pollen will encourage your queen to lay and the bees should fill the rest of their empty space with its nectar.

All done and sorted, thanks for the advice. Good job I have a happy understanding colony

And yes the ivy is in bud shouldn't be long away from flowering.

 

[sbisme]

Hell yeh..

Thanks for the back up Goose

 

[Millet]

No bother Maverick.. lol ..

 

[beeno]

Hi sbisme,
I would have left it as it was. You have plenty of room in the super and eggs in the 80% syrup filled brood frames. Once the eggs hatch the syrup in the frames will be gone in a jiffy. The whole idea is to get stores into the brood box for winter which you will achieve by putting super under the brood box. If you have Ivy coming fair enough, but you need as many frames of capped stores as you have seems of bees or a minimum of 16kg.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi sbisme,
I would have left it as it was.

Even though the OP has said?
Yes all the super frames are drawn and around three half filled,

Do you not think adding some empty drawn brood frame at the edge of the brood nest might be a good thing too.

 

[sbisme]

Hi sbisme,
I would have left it as it was. You have plenty of room in the super and eggs in the 80% syrup filled brood frames. Once the eggs hatch the syrup in the frames will be gone in a jiffy. The whole idea is to get stores into the brood box for winter which you will achieve by putting super under the brood box. If you have Ivy coming fair enough, but you need as many frames of capped stores as you have seems of bees or a minimum of 16kg.

Thanks for the advice but i have already put the super underneath and TBH I dont want to keep messing, I will now keep weighing the hive to see if it is getting any heavier especially when the ivy comes into flower, last resort if they do get too low is drop some fondant on.

 

[REDWOOD]

Observation over my years of beekeeping, some bees will abandon supers this time of year even though the supers are not full and concentrate on filling the BB with stores as more cells become available as the queen slows her egg laying rate. I found this particularly with black bees. I'm not to sure if this is a good trait but those colonies seem to come through the winter better.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Then that super is best away or under where there is no dead space above to heat.

 

[REDWOOD]

Then that super is best away or under where there is no dead space above to heat.