Excess Frames of Stores

[markb2603]

After removing my half filled supers a week or so ago and being generally happy with stores in the brood box and noted the strength of the bee numbers I started treatment. A brilliant week of weather has followed, and on inspection today I find a lot of the brood box is now filled with stores and I worry the queen will be out of space to lay imminently. I have about 6 drawn frames I was saving up to use in bait boxes next year, should I remove 2 frames of stores from the hives and swap them out? Could I put in empty frames and would they draw them out?

I was hoping to nadir the half filled supers but assuming that is a no go now given the level of stores and I can’t extract the brood frame stores as I started treating with them in. I assume I’ll store these over winter and feed back in the spring?

 

[Murox]

If she needs laying space give it to her, pull a capped frame or two (keep for the future) give the drawn comb to lay in. When the weather turns reassess the stores, you can always give them back a capped frame.

 

[elainemary]

After removing my half filled supers a week or so ago and being generally happy with stores in the brood box and noted the strength of the bee numbers I started treatment. A brilliant week of weather has followed, and on inspection today I find a lot of the brood box is now filled with stores and I worry the queen will be out of space to lay imminently. I have about 6 drawn frames I was saving up to use in bait boxes next year, should I remove 2 frames of stores from the hives and swap them out? Could I put in empty frames and would they draw them out?

I was hoping to nadir the half filled supers but assuming that is a no go now given the level of stores and I can’t extract the brood frame stores as I started treating with them in. I assume I’ll store these over winter and feed back in the spring?

I always think what would the bees do in the wild in these situations? They’ve survived for 120 million years without us and probably had many years when their nest was stuffed with stores and still survived in the absence of man worrying whether the queen had room to lay. I thought winter bees were physiologically different because they didn’t have any brood to raise, so even if there isn’t room to lay as long as your hive is rammed with bees now and strong I would have thought the colony will be fine.
I’ve observed this in the summer when queenless hives have adult bees that live far longer than the received wisdom of 6 weeks only. A lot longer, when there is no brood to raise. Personally I wouldn’t worry and just leave them to it.

I would have thought you could still nadir the supers as the bees will just leave it until space becomes available, or they will use later in the spring when they need it most

 

[elliebear15]

Sorry to have to ask, please can someone enlighten me as to what the word nadir means?
I'm new to beekeeping, and following a few threads with interest. Just haven't got all the lingo down yet

 

[pargyle]

Sorry to have to ask, please can someone enlighten me as to what the word nadir means?
I'm new to beekeeping, and following a few threads with interest. Just haven't got all the lingo down yet

Put the super under the brood box...rather than on top. So the stores are at the bottom of the hive. The bees will use them and move up. You want your bees to be near the top of the hive in winter where it will be warmest. (Heat rises)

 

[hemo]

Generally the term nadir means the lowset point, so with a super nadiring means lowering it to place under the brood box.
It is pointless to do so if the honey is sealed so one should scrap the cappings for the bees to hopefully move it up.
Personnaly I don't bother , I prefer to extract and feed back to save messing about re arranging the hive twice.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just done one.
Moved them onto a solid floor at the same time

 

[Wilco]

For the sake of an individual who seems to have left (@oliver90owner), technically what we refer to as a 'super' is more properly called a 'shallow'.

A shallow can be placed in one of three positions in the hive:
1. It can be used for brood (almost no-one does this but it is done by some).
2. It can be put on top of the brood area. Think 'superimposed', hence the term 'super'.
3. It can be placed below the brood area, the lowest box in the hive. Hence the term 'nadir', as elucidated by @hemo.

With 2 and 3, to prevent it becoming part of the brood area (and thus technically neither being supered or nadired), a queen excluder can be placed between the shallow and the brood area.

Most people use them in the super configuration and because, as a society we appear to be conflating a lot of words rather than using the correct terms thus our vocabulary is contracting, we end up with people calling a shallow a super.

There are a few different ways to nadir a shallow, using the search function on here should throw up some threads- someone recently posted a good method.

 

[ericbeaumont]

what we refer to as a 'super' is more properly called a 'shallow'.

Yes, the position of a box (but not its size) is defined by the Latin root in which super means above and beyond and nadir the lowest point, opposite the zenith (in astronomy). When a box of any size is nadired or supered, the reader will know exactly where that box went in relation to the box(es) containing the nest & queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the position of a box (but not its size) is defined by the Latin root

Nadir isn't Latin - it's old French, but origilally from the Arabic nazir

 

[ericbeaumont]

Nadir isn't \Latin - it's old French, but origilally from the Arabic nazir

You're right, slack writing.

 

[blackcloud]

I thought "super" was abbreviated from "Superstructure"- device placed above.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I thought "super" was abbreviated from "Superstructure"- device placed above.

nope - just means above/on top, same as superseded ( from supersedere to take the higher seat/throne) superimpose would have been closer than superstructure

 

[Newbeeneil]

Oh, I love that this forum is full of pedants! I feel so at home .

 

[blackcloud]

Full of something for sure

 

[Erichalfbee]

Oh, I love that this forum is full of pedants! I feel so at home .

You don’t realise the agony I feel wanting to edit that bloody apostrophe especially in thread titles

 

[ericbeaumont]

wanting to edit

Do it! Do it!

 

[Sutty]

Oh, I love that this forum is full of pedants! I feel so at home .

They're not pedants - just accurate!

 

[Sutty]

You don’t realise the agony I feel wanting to edit that bloody apostrophe especially in thread titles

Please do! They make me twitch!

 

[JamezF]

They're not pedants - just accurate!

Isn't it the pedants that are revolting?

James