Evolution

[Skyhook]

Got anything else?
tin hat on waiting for the nuclear full out
http://www.creationism.org/heinze/SciEvidGodLife.htm

Unfortunately, Heinze has not really understood the question, therefore his answer doesn't add much. His argument is that , say, a bacterium couldn't just pop into being. This is fairly self evident, and no-one thinks it would. The first steps towards life were much simpler and became more complex due to natural forces- see Joseph's or my link.

He also talks about 'irreducible complexity' the idea that many components have to arrive simultaneously for a organ or organism to work. This is similar to the old 'watchmaker' analogy- as explained here by David Attenborough, who I would like to be my uncle please.

http://www.wimp.com/eyeevolution/

 

[tonybloke]

it's all very elegantly explained in 'darwins watch' a discworld book, by Pratchett, Stewart & Cohen.

 

[REDWOOD]

neanderthals and humans lived together how did this happen in evolution ?

 

[Skyhook]

Swathes of proof! - just theories that's all (as in Darwins theory of evolution) No, not just theories- theory backed up by evidence- the fossil record, DNA, etc etc- the proof I referred to earlier, and which you seem to have sidestepped.

As for Russel's pisspot - what's that got to do with the price of coal? Teapot, actually. And very little to do with the price of coal, but a lot to do with this discussion if you read the posts

Personally I don't need to dig around for proof, I have something better it's called FAITH Well it's certainly an alternative!

It seems to me that the evolutionists seem to be getting more evangelical by the day and like atheism it's turned into a religion of it's own. You may be right. I for one thought that logic had won the day, and that creationists were going the way of flat-earthers, however, due to the big push by American fundamentalist evangelists in recent years (Alpha course etc) the old superstitions are coming back, and it feels as though we're slipping back towards the dark ages. I, for one, hope we never go back to a theocracy- ask someone who's lived under Sharia law.

There must be someone 'up there' messing around a bit otherwise how do you explain the platypus (a joke on us all surely!!) and bagpipe players Now come on! Platypuses fair enough, but bagpipes are no laughing matter!

There you go - I said I wasn't going to contribute to this post any more

As I said in my first post - GOD invented evolution. You may have a point. I'm an atheist and have been for some years; but I do feel that if there's a place for god in the universe, it's in the why rather than the how.

Your go!

 

[Joseph]

Don't mistake the scientific definition of theory to the everyday use of the word.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory#Definitions_from_scientific_organizations

 

[meetballuk]

yer just a theory, just like that theory of gravity lol

neanderthals and humans just like chimps and gorilas, just two options on the evolutionary tree

 

[Skyhook]

neanderthals and humans lived together how did this happen in evolution ?

Quite simple. Hominids (probably **** Heidelbergensis IIRC) moved up out of Africa into Europe. In the ice age the glaciers came down over Europe, forcing them South. Some retreated to Africa, and evolved into H. sapiens. Some were cornered in Southern Europe where the conditions were harder, and evolved into neanderthals.

When the ice retreated they were both able to expand back north, where they met and, for a while, co-existed.

.

 

[Suzi Q]

Quite simple. Hominids (probably **** Heidelbergensis IIRC) moved up out of Africa into Europe. In the ice age the glaciers came down over Europe, forcing them South. Some retreated to Africa, and evolved into H. sapiens. Some were cornered in Southern Europe where the conditions were harder, and evolved into neanderthals.

When the ice retreated they were both able to expand back north, where they met and, for a while, co-existed.

.

And according to the latest genetic research interbred. Up to 4% neanderthal genes in Europeans, none in Africans.

 

[Outlander]

Oh

 

[REDWOOD]

So neanderthal died out obviously so what made us superior and not them, we co existed and probably had a social understanding to have mated with them. Also if we have 4% of their genes what samples were used to gain this %, do scientists have DNA from a neanderthal. Why only 4% when gorillas and humans share 98% DNA

 

[tonybloke]

So neanderthal died out obviously so what made us superior and not them, we co existed and probably had a social understanding to have mated with them. Also if we have 4% of their genes what samples were used to gain this %, do scientists have DNA from a neanderthal. Why only 4% when gorillas and humans share 98% DNA

oh mate, you really need to read a few decent books, try Matt Ridley
http://www.amazon.com/Genome-Autobiography-Species-Chapters-P-S/dp/0060894083
for a start

 

[REDWOOD]

oh mate, you really need to read a few decent books, try Matt Ridley
http://www.amazon.com/Genome-Autobiography-Species-Chapters-P-S/dp/0060894083
for a start

This looks a better one tony
[ame]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Humans-Who-Went-Extinct-Neanderthals/dp/0199239193[/ame]

 

[Skyhook]

So neanderthal died out obviously so what made us superior and not them, we co existed and probably had a social understanding to have mated with them. Also if we have 4% of their genes what samples were used to gain this %, do scientists have DNA from a neanderthal. Why only 4% when gorillas and humans share 98% DNA

As regards scientists- isn't that a bit like Wilberforce asking Huxley whether he claimed descent from apes on his mothers or his fathers side? He lost that debate heavily.

The real answer probably depends on whether the scientists are of european, african or asian descent- only europeans carry neanderthal DNA.

On the question of percentages, try reading this summed up in the extract-

'But it is simplistic to put an actual figure on the amount of genetic material we have in common, says animal geneticist Professor Chris Moran from the University of Sydney's Faculty of Veterinary Science.

"Making broad comparisons by saying … 98 per cent of [human] genes are similar to a chimpanzee or whatever else … tend to be a little bit misleading," says Moran.

The amount of genetic material we share with other species depends upon what you compare

 

[meetballuk]

So neanderthal died out obviously so what made us superior and not them, we co existed and probably had a social understanding to have mated with them. Also if we have 4% of their genes what samples were used to gain this %, do scientists have DNA from a neanderthal. Why only 4% when gorillas and humans share 98% DNA

we were supiour because our socal structure allowed ideas and technolgy to flow but the neanderthals were prone to smaller socail groups with less interaction. they also had higher muscle density which is more exspense food wise. we just out competed them for food and space.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

neanderthals and humans lived together how did this happen ?

They still do in parts Brynaman and Gwaun cae Gurwen !

 

[Hivemaker.]

they also had higher muscle density which is more exspense food wise. we just out competed them for food and space.

And they tasted good,so we ate every last one of them.

 

[For want of a better word]

And they tasted good,so we ate every last one of them.

Is there any peer reviewed scientific evidence for that?

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Is there any peer reviewed scientific evidence for that?

No, but there is an Egon Ronay review that speaks favourably of the dish.

Dusty

 

[REDWOOD]

And they tasted good,so we ate every last one of them.

Not far wrong there, that's what i read somewhere along with other theories

 

[Skyhook]

Attenborough at 9.00 tonight, if anyones interested. He tells it so much better.