Evidence-based beekeeping

[flemage]

derekm

I find your kingspan hive very intresting wounder if you could take some pics and maybe explain a bit more?

Perhaps a new thread in bee hive types?

i cant for the life of me work out what the pipe bit sticking out the bottom would be for?

Many Thanks Simon

 

[Brosville]

In a Warre there may be 1" thick cedar "walls" with a quilt over the top of the bees with 4" of dry shavings, offering thermal insulation, and the ability to "wick away" excess moisture up into the quilt, which has a top of porous wood underneath the waterproof roof (the airflow under which can help the "wicking" process) is a fairly sophisticated means of helping the bees to maintain their essential nest heat and atmosphere, particularly through a cold and damp winter . I have no doubt that whatever way you choose to measure it, or whatever measurement units you choose, the Warre will knock spots off a "National" for the ability of the bees to maintain temperature with least energy expenditure.

Remembering my old physics lessons, I presume that you'd have something along the lines of a measured quantity of warm water in a sealed container at a certain temperature, and then measure how fast it lost it's heat

I'll reiterate, I think you're over-simplifying things greatly - a good analogy would be human clothing - put on a highly-insulated jacket that doesn't "breathe" and you'll end up 'orribly clammy and damp (which is one of my worries about "plastics") - you really need to develop some highly insulating and strong material that can "breathe" - you could try going down the route of "Goretex" technology, or just use wood in the first place.

As I've said, by all means measure away to your heart's content, practical experience suggests that Kenyan's are nowhere near as "leaky" as you've suggested - if it worries you, add some insulation, use a Warre or make creations out of Kingspan

 

[Finman]

the best thing surely is to breed resistant bees to varroa, saw this in the paper a few months ago
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sciencetoday/2012/0419/1224314919925.html
dont know how easy it is but think treating and breeding at the same time untill resistance is gained is the best option

yesyes. There several projects in professional level all over the world. Millions has bee used to find a way to get mite in control. More millions have lost when mite kills more and more hives.

It is sure that it is not "best". It is not a method at all. It does not work and there is no idea, when the idea is true.

Very seldom it has been thougt that varroa developes itself too and I bet that it gives answer to every result, which beekeepers find.

.

 

[Chris Luck]

Finman, you always fail to answer the situation in France where honey bees do survive with varroa.

In the INRA study up to 15 years and counting. My bees as well.

I'm very suspicious whether varroa is sometimes used as an easy answer.

Chris

 

[Finman]

.
Market speaks! That is one fact which is odd to many clear front face measuring men.

Warre hives, top bar hives awfully expencive kingspand boards....

In professional beekeeping, like in many other industrial design ergonomy is the most important thing.

when I started beekeeping, sugar sack was 50 kg. Then it was 30. Then 25. Now it is 10 kg.
Needless to say, numerous failures in workers' backbone say that enough may be too much.
If you think langtroth, its ergonomy is good. In many countries hives are heavy that they cannot be stealed.

.

 

[Finman]

Finman, you always fail to answer the situation in France where honey bees do survive with varroa.

why it is not a aswer to whole globe's needs?

Is Gefys bees or what they are no mites. A French professional beebreeder.

My friend, a professional beekeeper, bought 2 Gefys bees. The price is 6000 a piece.
Now he has 10 hives and he says that not a single mite. But bees are impossible to nurse.he will kill the mites because they are realy dangerous if they survive in nature.


He said to me that if I look carefully, guys in photos are carefully packed like space men.

Why NZ breeders took from Germany mite tolerant bees if Frech has a resolution.

.

 

[user 6228]

derekm

I find your kingspan hive very intresting wounder if you could take some pics and maybe explain a bit more?

Perhaps a new thread in bee hive types?

i cant for the life of me work out what the pipe bit sticking out the bottom would be for?

Many Thanks Simon

It was built as a thermal model of a tree nest. The kingspan sides mimic 6 to 8" of wood. The pipe thing is there to mimic the the 6 to 8" tunnel to the nest chamber. It uses Seeley & Morse 1975 data to give the approximate dimensions. I had to seal it very carefully to get consistent temperature stratication profiles. The pics are in the album

 

[Chris Luck]

Right then. I strongly suspect that bees can and do survive with varroa in a number of Countries, it's just that most people get shot to pieces if they dare say that's what they do and the others have been conditioned to think they can't not treat AND to be honest I understand, I would be frightened to not treat my bees if I didn't have "a few", especially after reading all the doom and gloom postings on forums and articles in the media....

....but then since school days I've always had the same little difficulty and needed to test the veracity of things for myself and it was only years later that the INRA study was released.

Chris

 

[RoofTops]

I read The Barefoot Beekeeper a few weeks ago.

In the book the author says things like “... I have read, [Varroa mite] cannot reproduce above about 92F (33C)”

Intriguing observation. Varroa reproduce in the brood nest - which is hotter than 33C. Someone needs to tell the varroa they should be dead.

 

[Tom Bick]

Not any more but I used to, but I'm not at all sure it makes any difference...

....correction, it must make a difference to the colony but not necessarily regarding varroa tolerance. It does take longer for a new colony to construct comb without foundation but they make the type of comb they want - that's more interesting to me and of course it reduces any residues to be found in foundation. I do use foundation in supers but many of those are used year on year once drawn.


Chris

Thanks Chris I have found natural comb interesting far more interesting than foundation and for me it has to be better for the bees but I am surprised that you go with foundation in the supers.

 

[Chris Luck]

but I am surprised that you go with foundation in the supers.

Well I have lot's of drawn super frames and they are stronger for spinning. Brood comb is more important to my mind anyway, that's where it all happens.

Chris

 

[Talking With Bees]

“according to the observations of a several long-time top bar beekeepers, these smaller cells [built on wild comb] appear to be less attractive to Varroa mites.”

Evidence based? How much more woolly a statement than that would you believe as conclusive? It only 'appears' so. I would not take that as conclusive. Sounds more like a suggestion to me.

Thanks Oliver. Just to be clear I did not see the following as facts, science or evidence at all: "In the book the author says things like “... I have read, [Varroa mite] cannot reproduce above about 92F (33C)” (p. 17) and “according to the observations of a several long-time top bar beekeepers, these smaller cells [built on wild comb] appear to be less attractive to Varroa mites.”"

I was surprised to read these types of statements in a widely publicised book.

 

[Lady Waggle Dancer]

Icing sugar has been rubbished in trials as has small cells so where next for the faithful?

PH

Can you tell me where these have been rubbished and who performed the tests so I can go read them?

Thanks

 

[Poly Hive]

Not off the top of my head no, but there was a relatively recent post and I am very suspicious of this as a first post.

PH

 

[Finman]

Can you tell me where these have been rubbished and who performed the tests so I can go read them?

Thanks

can somebody tell you where.

Of course in google. Put there a key word. You find there quite new researches.

But you do with your bees as you like.

.

 

[DanBee]

I was surprised to read these types of statements in a widely publicised book.

Widely self publicised.

 

[Black Comb]

Can you tell me where these have been rubbished and who performed the tests so I can go read them?

Thanks

A Canadian test I think. If you search this forum there was a thread about 2 years ago.

 

[Brosville]

People may suspect the real reason behind someone's posts is to drive people to a website where books, beehives (and superannuated garish plastic beer coolers) are flogged using an affiliate scheme of some sort....

As for sugar dusting and the efficacy thereof - many people swear by it, if done properly (allied to varroa counts) and several repeated dustings every few days when indicated, but I've also read of some Canadian tests which claimed to debunk that (from memory, the Canadian tests did not mimic the usual methodology of sugar dusting, but they still claimed they had proved it useless)

 

[jackbee]

can somebody tell you where.

Of course in google. Put there a key word. You find there quite new researches.

But you do with your bees as you like.

.

i think if someone quotes research it is there responsibilty to provide citations

 

[Finman]

I've also read of some Canadian tests which claimed to debunk that (from memory, the Canadian tests did not mimic the usual methodology of sugar dusting, but they still claimed they had proved it useless)

canadian researches has been ment to professional beekeeping. Even if something works in hobby level, it is not proper to earn money. The percent of professional beekeeping is big.

When we look the dead rate of Canadian colony losses, they are big. However it is reported that formic acid efficacy is 96%. In pratice in 30% of hives it is only 70% and it means death to the colony.
To hobby beekeeper 20% dead rate is great, because he does not undertand the issue. My colony vanished, he says.

I asked from our varroa expert, what is mater with Canadian varroa proplems.
He said that with thymol and formic acid concentration must be so big that some brood die and grass in front of entrance wilts. Then hot spell comes and start kill queens because concentration gos too high. Too carefull, and stuff is not strong enough.

It is difficult find this knowledge from internet. Everything is splended when a researcher makes his works. He is not a looser and he wants to money to next project.

It seems that university researches are not allways honest. Results are great but industry suffers.


And then in forum level..... Varroa group has worked carefully 10 years and they publish the results. Then great self made authorities of forum tells their own facts even if they have not made a single research from issue. I do not mention the names but they are same guys here year after year. their screw mus be loosened in the head.

.and sugar on bottom:
- i got an idea
- great fantastic
- learning curve
- you never know if you do not try


c