Double Brood Box or Brood Box & Super?

[ericbeaumont]

about the right capacity, just the wrong format.

I believe that is why Steve (Swarm) uses doubles dummied down.

 

[JamezF]

I believe that is why Steve (Swarm) uses doubles dummied down.

Yes, and why I intend to follow suit at some point this year.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

Yes, and why I intend to follow suit at some point this year.

James

Maybe a double Paynes nuc with the feeder knocked out would save having to dummy

 

[JamezF]

Maybe a double Paynes nuc with the feeder knocked out would save having to dummy

Not sure what I'd do for supers then though. It's tempting to knock the feeders out of my Paynes nucs anyhow. I find them quite inconvenient.

I have quite a few wooden brood boxes that would actually probably be improved by the addition of an insulated dummy board at each end (and a bit of insulation outside on the other two sides). When I run out I'll have a think about the best way forward from that point.

James

 

[Swarm]

So, given the information around colony size increasing and decreasing according to the time of year....

Is it better for a colony if the Brood nest grows wide across the Brood box?

Or narrower and upwards into another Brood box/super?

My bees seem to like the vertical configuration. It depends what bees you keep but mine do well with a brood nest of eighteen frames, nine over nine, most of the honey goes to the supers. I use 25 and 50 mm dummies which allows me to expand or condense the nest as required.
One Amm colony in particular with a queen raised last year and over wintered in a double Maisemore nuc went straight into this format in April as there was brood on ten of the twelve frames. I increased the brood to nineteen frames on Wenesday and gave her extra comb to lay, plus a third super as space for the bees.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It's why I don't like Nationals. My bees black, orange or grey seem to do really well on 10 frames of 14x12 in a poly box, I keep mostly Abelo. I really hate stacking them up to any height unless that height is supers.
As for splitting, how hard is nuke'ing the queen into a poly nuc?

 

[ericbeaumont]

Not sure what I'd do for supers

https://paynesbeefarm.co.uk/products/super-for-poly-nuc-hive

 

[JamezF]

https://paynesbeefarm.co.uk/products/super-for-poly-nuc-hive

I'd not seen that before. Does the bit that goes over the feeder serve any useful purpose? I'd have thought it would be more straightforward just to have frames for the full width of the super.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'd not seen that before. Does the bit that goes over the feeder serve any useful purpose? I'd have thought it would be more straightforward just to have frames for the full width of the super.

James

You have to chop it out and fill in the missing bits. It’s how I run my mine as 8 frame

 

[Barnowl]

Hi Dani, what tools do you use to cut the poly-I am cutting out a feeder with a small saw knife and it is very messy ,just wondered if there is an easier way.

 

[polymath]

Quite. I'm thinking that for here, brood and a half is actually about the right capacity, just the wrong format.

James

Totally agree hence I run my colonies on eight frames in the top and bottom boxes so 16 standard national frames in total. This equals roughly ‘Brood and a half’ in space. My view is bees like to go up and down not left to right so this creates a taller thinner hive for them, whilst maximizing honey stored in the supers. Two full national boxes gives them too much room to store honey in the brood boxes.

It is a very flexible format:
Bees expand , take out corex block and add 3 frames to one of the boxes
Feb/March take out bottom box, put top box on bottom, new box on top 50% frame replacement each year
Brood over 11+ frames mid April split using vertical split/demaree. Raise new queen, drop to bottom so you have brood, QE, Brood, QE with entrance run as double queen hive. Winter kill off old queen, remove QE and new queen to take through winter.
Only one size of frame to deal with for brood boxes.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Hi Dani, what tools do you use to cut the poly-I am cutting out a feeder with a small saw knife and it is very messy ,just wondered if there is an easier way.

I've found the best way to cut poly is with a hot blade. I have an old putty knife that I heat on my blow torch then it just slices through the poly with no mess.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Dani, what tools do you use to cut the poly-I am cutting out a feeder with a small saw knife and it is very messy ,just wondered if there is an easier way.

A small toothed saw but Neil's way seems better

I've found the best way to cut poly is with a hot blade. I have an old putty knife that I heat on my blow torch then it just slices through the poly with no mess.

 

[Moody]

Hijust been reading through this valuable thread.
Just wanted to ask, I inspected today and the bees had drawn out comb on 9/12 frames of foundation that was added 1 month ago.
Given the UK has now passed 21st June should I add a double brood or go for a honey super instead?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hijust been reading through this valuable thread.
Just wanted to ask, I inspected today and the bees had drawn out comb on 9/12 frames of foundation that was added 1 month ago.
Given the UK has now passed 21st June should I add a double brood or go for a honey super instead?

How many full frames of brood have they?

 

[Moody]

How many full frames of brood have they?

1 x stores
3 x comb
4 x bias
3 x foundation

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Given the UK has now passed 21st June should I add a double brood or go for a honey super instead?

1 x stores
3 x comb
4 x bias
3 x foundation

Neither - you need to get them up to seven or eight frames full of brood, and draw all the foundation before slapping more space on

 

[Erichalfbee]

1 x stores
3 x comb
4 x bias
3 x foundation

The brood box has to have 7 of frames full of brood each side before you think of putting a super on
The frames of foundation need to be drawn out yet and then the bees might likely be in winter prep mode. I wouldn’t expect honey from them this season.

 

[ericbeaumont]

3 x foundation

Where in the box?

Get them working it faster; stick one in the middle of the nest and repeat when they've drawn it.

While they're doing that, put the other two on the edges of the brood nest.

 

[Moody]

Where in the box?

Get them working it faster; stick one in the middle of the nest and repeat when they've drawn it.

While they're doing that, put the other two on the edges of the brood nest.

They are at the edges.
Thanks, will do that at the next inspection.