Commercial links number 2

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And the spirit of the forum is? To announce whenever oThern's or any other company has a sale, but exclude any reference to commercial beekeepers?

Actually I do not have an issue with this forum about commercial advertising and the Beekeeping Directory has been a move in the right direction.

On other forums where advertising and commercial links are allowed we don't see this being misused.

Commercial beekeepers have always been the source of important inventions and innovation, often at substantial cost both in time and finances.

When there is an obvious negative/aggressive attitude towards commercial beekeepers and their business, don't expect to get any information/advice from them. There are many things that are not written in books, or on the internet, that are the result of decades of working with bees. Experience matters!

:iagree: how are we to know if the members of this forum are an employee of a supply company and is using the forum for a free advert !
 
:iagree: how are we to know if the members of this forum are an employee of a supply company and is using the forum for a free advert !

no doubt hiding behind a grassy knoll!:coolgleamA:

Honestly.

On the VERY rare occasions someone tries that (at least the rare occasions it slips past Admin and HM) it is blindingly obvious, and they get reported and blocked. And they can still get the "advert" in regardless of the forum rules.
 
i see a new website is advertised on another thread forum rules what a joke
 
So what's this then? democracy as per EU ? 'you will revisit the subject until you've voted the correct way hein?" in the previous thread 141 have voted for no advertising, 69 for 'only if poster has no connection to company' (the status quo basically) but closer to no than yes against 34 wanting commercial advertising and a handful of don't knows. Vox Populi fuerit !! I say :D
 
i see a new website is advertised on another thread forum rules what a joke

That is down to one of two reasons:

1/ Said company pays me lots of money or gives me a special discount rate.

OR

2/ I have not been around all day to moderate threads.
 
That is down to one of two reasons:

1/ Said company pays me lots of money or gives me a special discount rate.

OR

2/ I have not been around all day to moderate threads.

LOL Admin !!
 
the thread for T_____S new web site had well over 300 views in a couple of hours thats good targeted advertising ist it maybe you should ask them for money an advert in beecraft would cost alot more
 
...had well over 300 views in a couple of hours...

So what? I would expect most of them a
were already aware of Th*rne and were not influenced to place an order with them. I often access their catalogue, but have purchased nought from them for over a year.
 
My view is that this forum should have room for all the many types of beekeepers, but am somewhat at a loss to understand this persistent "push" to allow commercial links - as I've said before, the only people to gain from them are those doing the spamming (for that is what it is!) - links on fora count towards Google rankings, and they're just seeking a "free ride" - I'm all for a simple "no commercial links whatsoever" - as this thread demonstrates, every single link could be a source of debate/ill-feeling/accusations of "fiddling", and most of all, takes up loads of the admin team's valuable time!

1. Admin has made it quite clear already that this is a forum for beekeepers of ALL types and scales.

2. When you join this forum it is quite clear that it is not to be used as a medium for advertising your wares. That is not in dispute, and those who then use it to do so are clearly in breach of the understood ways of working here.

3. I do not detect any 'persistent push for commercial links'. Actually more the opposite. You may have had some historical issues with a couple of serious chancers but you get chancers everywhere. Chuck em out and carry on. They do not constitute a push for links.

4. I see no spamming. I see beekeeper X telling beekeepers Y and Z about a particular product to which they themselves have no 'for profit' link. This is not spamming, its the type of conversation you might have at a local branch meeting. Discussion of when entity T or P or X are having a sale is actually quite important information to some, and one beekeeper telling others when and where they can get stuff discounted is just normal chatter. If the enterprise itself, or some appointee or glove puppet, starts making an announcement then its spam. I think I have seen only two such cases in my time here, though no doubt admin/moderation has ripped a few out I did not see.

5. If I detect anything, its the opposite of what you say, an almost illogical hostility, mainly from a few, to any kind of links at all which might even slightly have a commercial slant. Its not how real life operates, we talk about commercial products and brands all the time, in positive and negative ways.

6. Admin are doing just fine. You joined this place as the forum exists now................why change it?

7. Did anyone else, like me lol, have no idea wth a QR link was anyway? fwiw, including it as an avatar, that you needed to scan, would be a relatively unobtrusive thing, that you, if appropriately equipped, could choose to access or not. I think Nortons question reads as theoretical rather than notice of intention to do so, and I would suggest that the volume of these that would appear would be a number not far removed from zero.
 
Suspect your point 5 is referring to envy, ITLD, on the basis of "he was allowed more exposure than me and it's NOT FAIR". At which point some of the rest of us (non-commercial) just think "if they're going to bleat, let's bin 'em all and they can use the Directory to mount their campaigns". Ie your point 6, which I totally agree with.
 
4. I see no spamming. I see beekeeper X telling beekeepers Y and Z about a particular product to which they themselves have no 'for profit' link. This is not spamming, its the type of conversation you might have at a local branch meeting. Discussion of when entity T or P or X are having a sale is actually quite important information to some, and one beekeeper telling others when and where they can get stuff discounted is just normal chatter. If the enterprise itself, or some appointee or glove puppet, starts making an announcement then its spam. I think I have seen only two such cases in my time here, though no doubt admin/moderation has ripped a few out I did not see.

Eloquently put.:beatdeadhorse5:
 
Yes I agree too. However, the democratic vote has gone against the two yes,s but they are a significant minority so I suspect this will not go away.

Someone in the north east recently asked about where to source some bees. I posted a link to the forthcoming Carlisle beekeeping auction ( I have no connection with this nor am I selling goods there). Yet link was deleted?

Can we post BBKA yet?

Edit,: Yes we can.
 
7. Did anyone else, like me lol, have no idea wth a QR link was anyway? fwiw, including it as an avatar, that you needed to scan, would be a relatively unobtrusive thing, that you, if appropriately equipped, could choose to access or not. I think Nortons question reads as theoretical rather than notice of intention to do so, and I would suggest that the volume of these that would appear would be a number not far removed from zero.
I understand a QR code to be just another type of link. They're usually used for commercial purposes (e.g. on an ad as a link to get more information or buy a product), but can be for getting information of almost any type (e.g. to go to someone's Facebook page, on a health brochure/poster to go to a page for more info, etc). They can even contain just plain text (no link to anywhere).

I have most often seen them on TV ads and programs, where they are all but useless. By the time I've found my smartphone, the QR code has long since disappeared off the screen.

I've never actually used one, or felt the need to own one. If I want to advertise something I really want the ad to be easy to read and understand. Perhaps I'm just turning into an old ..... .
 
" I see no spamming. I see beekeeper X telling beekeepers Y and Z about a particular product to which they themselves have no 'for profit' link. This is not spamming"

- stop, pause, think, reflect for a moment - how does the admin team tell the difference between your "well meaning, and with good intent" spamming, and someone who is doing it to plug their own/their neighbours/their fourth cousin's twice removed company? - the answer is that they can't (hence my muttering about private detectives) - and quite frankly, why should they? It is is FAR easier to just have a blanket "no commercial links ruling".... Having done the admin job on a busy forum for some years, I can assure you that it is often a thankless task that sometimes has you muttering "why the hell do I bother?", without all the added complication, hassle and timewasting in administering such a woolly "is it or isn't it" rule...

And I still fail to understand how come its such a big deal to some people that it's banned - this forum allows people to get really good unbiased and free advice, I'd hate to see it get a commercial bias.....
 
- stop, pause, think, reflect for a moment - how does the admin team tell the difference between your "well meaning, and with good intent" spamming, and someone who is doing it to plug their own/their neighbours/their fourth cousin's twice removed company?

- stop, pause, think, reflect for a moment yourself Bros, and try not to patronise.

How? Because its blindingly obvious and they ain't stupid.

And I still fail to understand how come its such a big deal to some people that it's banned

Because its unnecessary bureaucracy that interferes with the easy exchange of good information.

I've accepted that things aren't going to change, but that won't stop me from having a good moan whenever this subject comes up as I think the logic behind the decision is badly flawed.:rant:
 
However "good" an idea it may be to allow "good" links, (as I've pointed out ad nauseam) is just plain impractical, if not impossible to implement.
I've not suggested anyone is "stupid", just that they may not have experienced the reasons why it is just not a sensible course, hence may have overlooked the practical problems......

As for "unnecessary bureaucracy" - what tosh! - it's all part of the good manners needed when using a forum - we don't use certain swearwords because kids use the forum, we don't launch into ad hominem attacks, it is no big deal to say "no commercial links" as well

No flaws in the argument, it's just unworkable (however "good" it may appear to be)
 
Then we must agree to differ.

A good example of the folly of this rule - I've been discussing with a couple of folks via pm and email the relative advantages of buying framed QEs, £18+ from one supplier, £14 from another with promise of further discount for bulk. I can't post this information which is only to the detriment of those that may not know to check the supplier concerned. Daft and "unnecessary bureaucracy" IMHO, absolutely zero to do with manners.
 
"absolutely zero to do with manners" - everything to do with good manners and consideration for the admin team.....
To take your example as a case in point, there will be two commercial entities involved who may or may not contribute knowledge or funds to the forum - if you were allowed to name them, some muggins would have to check the bona fides of the companies (how the hell do they do that?), then check that you aren't the Owner/brother of the owner/MD/SEO company for the concerns (how do they do that?)........need I go on?

I'd love to give my local maker of Warré hives a plug - he does a good job, doesn't charge a fortune, and in my view is pretty uncommercial (he does it as a hobby), but I know it's not allowed, I respect the reasons why it isn't allowed, and the team who have to moderate the board, so quite cheerfully don't do it...........
 
"absolutely zero to do with manners" - everything to do with good manners and consideration for the admin team.....
To take your example as a case in point, there will be two commercial entities involved who may or may not contribute knowledge or funds to the forum - if you were allowed to name them, some muggins would have to check the bona fides of the companies (how the hell do they do that?), then check that you aren't the Owner/brother of the owner/MD/SEO company for the concerns (how do they do that?).......

Two nationally known beekeeping suppliers (actually three as I've just found someone who supplies the unframed version cheaper)? No, I can promise you no one would have to check they are bone fide, happy to PM you the names if you like.

And why on earth would it even matter if my wife's cousin once went out with the chairman (pure speculation!), the person who gains most is the member here who gets a bargain rather than being ripped off. The simple application of common sense would tell you that I'm not just pumping up one supplier so unlikely to have a vested interest in that company.


.need I go on?

No, but I dont suppose that will stop you. I'll leave you to have the final word in this diatribe
 
Bros
I understand your argument but what I can't understand is that on all the other fora I inhabit they are allowed and they are not a problem.

These other fora seem to have 3 or 4 moderators as opposed to 2 on here.
 
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