Buying some new queens

[Uncle Betty]

As far as I've seen over here all local bees need smoke a

How awful.

Is there a knitting group in your area ? Might be more suitable for you.

 

[B+.]

I mean that I care a great deal about them, without requiring validation from people whose primary concern is not so much conservation as the need to earn a living.

So, the criteria being totally different what wold be gained ? Nothing, in my view.

There we go again; that "profit motive" rearing it's head again. I have to say that I don't make a profit from my breeding work. Every penny (and more) I get from selling queens goes back into my breeding work.
My motivation is not profit oriented.
We agreed earlier that yield improvement and docility (among other traits) were worthy goals. If you want others to work with you to achieve your conservation agenda, you'll have to provide some motive for them to do that. Otherwise, I believe your work will end when you're unable to continue.

 

[foghornleghorn]

How awful.

Is there a knitting group in your area ? Might be more suitable for you.

Why put up with it when it's not at all necessary, you are only a beginner with very few hives. Spend a lot of time working with them and aggressive bees would soften your stance.

 

[Beefriendly]

Remind me again, what is a 100% Buckfast?

Any one of the many stabilised Buckfast lines mated with another of these Buckfast lines. II or isolated mating site needed to be sure you have the cross you want. Really B+ ....as a breeder of queens I'd have thought you would have known that ...
Be warned a lot of queens are sold as Buckfast that have no trace-ability to any of the current lines listed in the Buckfast breeders directory. And even some of the genuine sellers are of the stack 'em high sell 'em cheap with little quality control. That also applies to the Carniolan and Italian strains they also sell.
Caveat emptor....

 

[Uncle Betty]

There we go again; that "profit motive" rearing it's head again. I have to say that I don't make a profit from my breeding work. Every penny (and more) I get from selling queens goes back into my breeding work.
My motivation is not profit oriented.

I was referring to ITLD, as you mentioned him in this post.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=630728&postcount=132

Not to your good self.

 

[Uncle Betty]

Why put up with it when it's not at all necessary, you are only a beginner with very few hives. Spend a lot of time working with them and aggressive bees would soften your stance.

I have worked quite a bit with aggressive bees, while helping two other beekeepers out. Actually, that was before I got my own bees.

It's all relative of course, but there is no comparison between those little horrors and my own.

So I don't feel as though I am 'putting up' with anything, and I don't accept that 'amm' and 'aggressive' are synonymous.

 

[B+.]

Any one of the many stabilised Buckfast lines mated with another of these Buckfast lines. II or isolated mating site needed to be sure you have the cross you want. Really B+ ....as a breeder of queens I'd have thought you would have known that ...
Be warned a lot of queens are sold as Buckfast that have no trace-ability to any of the current lines listed in the Buckfast breeders directory. And even some of the genuine sellers are of the stack 'em high sell 'em cheap with little quality control. That also applies to the Carniolan and Italian strains they also sell.
Caveat emptor....

Yes, I know...just pulling your leg!

I agree 100% about the provenance point. The stories I hear are quite shocking. It seems that people will buy any old rubbish off the internet instead of buying from a breeder and getting a proper pedigree. I think buyers in this country are quite ignorant about such things

 

[B+.]

I was referring to ITLD, as you mentioned him in this post.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=630728&postcount=132

Not to your good self.

Yes, ITLD regularly asks people to send queens for testing if they think they're good enough.
I sent 2 daughters of 55-2-70-2016 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGZ0ZmN-W8M) last summer. Jolanta raised 30 daughters which she overwintered ((https://twitter.com/Bplus_Amc)) and Murray plans to test them on the heather in August. Although these are F2's, I am still curious to see how they do on the moors. IMHO, if you're confident in your stock, you shouldn't be afraid to test it. I tested them here in Bedfordshire (they drew 3 Langstroth deeps of foundation and filled them with honey), but, that is quite different to a commercial test in Perthshire. I am confident that they'll do well and, if they prove themselves there, they can do it anywhere. So much for Amc not being suited to the UK climate!

 

[jeff33]

With a good initial queen or two you should be able to produce your own for a few years as many of us on here do. Although I tend to change my breeder queens every two years their offspring will 'generally' breed good queens for at least another year or two.
S

That's what I have found. I get 1 or 2 generation of descent queens before they worsen and become less productive with a desire to sting.

 

[Beefriendly]

I wanted to correct the 'silly hyperbole' of categorising all 'local' bees as 'Satan's spawn' and all that other silly nonsense that went on.

So I don't feel as though I am 'putting up' with anything, and I don't accept that 'amm' and 'aggressive' are synonymous.

It might help if you defined what you are talking about. Local bees to the majority of this forums readers means mongrels....not Amm's which are a strain.
Or are you are just talking about your local bees in Ireland being Amm's as the recent genetic survey suggests?

It would add weight to your tenet if you could let us know approximately how many generations of queens you have successfully bred that remained calm.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

My question is have "local" bees always been aggressive and unproductive? I guess that's all there was once.

Before bee keepers started messing with reproductive lines, genetics and so on, were our native bees naturally aggressive and unproductive? They existed quite happily for aeons it seems under their own steam, breeding locally. Did it change? If so why? Was it the introduction of non local blood lines?

Not taking sides just confused and a little disheartened by the whole lot of guff that's been posted.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Hooray! Seems to have put paid to that one.

 

[B+.]

Hooray! Seems to have put paid to that one.

Answer ridiculous questions that you pose yourself. That's a novel form of trolling

 

[Swarm]

Mankind simply stuffs his big foot in things, it's a common theme. As for all this guff, you got it in one, it's people getting all over excited about themselves.
Anyone reading the forum will know that any bees can be glorious or horrible but the stupidity starts when slagging off local bees starts. Me praising or bemoaning local bees means nothing to someone in North Wales, never mind England.
The link posted on the first page is for queens just a few miles from the OP. They are proof of what sustainable beekeeping can achieve and proof you don't need to search elsewhere.

I have to congratulate Uncle Betty for his patience and also thanks to admin for pointing out that some so called well bred bees can be a lot worse than some/most/all locals, wherever you live

 

[Uncle Betty]

Mankind simply stuffs his big foot in things, it's a common theme. As for all this guff, you got it in one, it's people getting all over excited about themselves.
Anyone reading the forum will know that any bees can be glorious or horrible but the stupidity starts when slagging off local bees starts. Me praising or bemoaning local bees means nothing to someone in North Wales, never mind England.
The link posted on the first page is for queens just a few miles from the OP. They are proof of what sustainable beekeeping can achieve and proof you don't need to search elsewhere.

I have to congratulate Uncle Betty for his patience and also thanks to admin for pointing out that some so called well bred bees can be a lot worse than some/most/all locals, wherever you live

Thank you Steve, I appreciate the thought.

 

[The Poot in Somerset]

Answer ridiculous questions that you pose yourself. That's a novel form of trolling

I'm a very novel sort of beekeeper and not as opinionated as some. A troll - no.

 

[B+.]

I have to congratulate Uncle Betty for his patience and also thanks to admin for pointing out that some so called well bred bees can be a lot worse than some/most/all locals, wherever you live

Thats not exactly what he said

 

[beebopper]

I think we also have to appreciate that people keep bees in many different circumstances and will thus have a different viewpoint.

Some of my bees are on a school site. A few years ago a swarm arrived and I was really pleased - told everybody that we had gained bees rather than lost them through swarming.
The were the most vicious bees you could imagine. They pinged the veil as soon as the hive was touched - stinging anything that moves. Now given that there are children about I want calm gentle bees so I requeen regularly now from well known good suppliers. Even though this is a one off I simply want to know what I have got and this takes the worry out of the process. If I allow things to mate with what is about locally I simply do not know what I will get.

In addition all the 'local bees' (yes I am afraid it is all) I have had, have been very swarmy - again if I get too many swarms then I will have problems with the the powers that be who may say the bees have to go.

On the other hand some people with lots of hives in a rural setting would be in a different position.

If your living depends on what the bees produce your in a different position again.

If locals work for you great but if they don't you have to find other ways to manage your bees.

 

[Swarm]

Thats not exactly what he said

You constantly bemoan local bees but you don't seem able to grasp that local bees around here are not the local bees near you, you have no experience of them, yet you condemn them all. The queens I am talking about are local to the OP and there are others who confirm their quality.
Why you lot have to set about Uncle Betty like a gang of playground bullies is quite pathetic but his calm, reasoned replies to your arrogance is admirable and just about sums you up.

 

[Stiffy]

You constantly bemoan local bees but you don't seem able to grasp that local bees around here are not the local bees near you, you have no experience of them, yet you condemn them all. The queens I am talking about are local to the OP and there are others who confirm their quality.
Why you lot have to set about Uncle Betty like a gang of playground bullies is quite pathetic but his calm, reasoned replies to your arrogance is admirable and just about sums you up.

Not that I wish to get involved with this silly spat as over the short time I have kept bees (15yrs) it is clearly evident that some bee keepers are very 'precious' about their own bees and will never be willing to accept anything different. However before having a dig at the responses Uncle Betty has received , I think it would be wise to look at what sparked the replies he got and look at his first post to this thread (no. 26) ?
S