Buying some new queens

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Also there's stuff that we mutt wranglers can do to improve our lot. If you graft / keep swarm cells etc from your best colony, then slip your second best colony a frame of drone brood or a foundationless frame (working around your IPM).

Then I notice that my worst colonies are headed by late-season mated Qs. There are theories for that (I am not an AMM person) but I am not going to get into religion here; I just suggest trying grafting now, as I am doing.

 

[Uncle Betty]

Ahh so you just don't care if your bees aren't very good.
Nothing wrong with that I suppise.

So that was just a petty comment then, wasn't it ?

Pity you aren't as well-bred as you claim your bees to be.

 

[B+.]

In truth, it's the 'seeing farther than others' in your tag that often comes through.
.

That's a quotation from Sir Isaac Newton. He was recognizing that, even though he received the credit for the laws of motion, he was merely building on the foundation set by others. I see it as a mark of humility rather than bragging (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants)

 

[Uncle Betty]

That's a quotation from Sir Isaac Newton. He was recognizing that, even though he received the credit for the laws of motion, he was merely building on the foundation set by others. I see it as a mark of humility rather than bragging (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_on_the_shoulders_of_giants)

I know the quote. It's actually a 12th century aphorism, and appears in many guises, including the windows in Chartres cathedral. When Newton said it, many would have recognised it.

edit - I see that all of this is in the link you provided. Apologies, I should have looked there first. I am taking it from 'Newton - The Making Of A Genius', by Patricia Fara, Picador, 2003 ed., p.207

Important in some contexts to see Newton not as an individual, but as a national figure. Thus a lot of work went into creating the historical myth of his humility.

It's just as fair a reflection of his character to think about the nature of his disputes with eg Flamsteed, and obviously Leibniz too.

Fascinating man, but not, I think, likeable.


.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Fascinating man, but not, I think, likeable.


.

One of yours put it best. Fancy a guess the quotation I have in mind?

 

[Beefriendly]

He offered me a couple of frames for grafting.
I grafted about 12 queens and picked the best 2 to use.

If, as I suspect, these were open mated queens then it is a very bad idea to breed from them. They are solely intended for heading production colonies....not as breeding stock. Their daughters (i.e the bits you grafted) may already only retain 50% of the original Buckfast genes. Now you open mate these and you end up with 75% local mongrel gene 25% Buckfast. These are a recipe for disaster.
You need to buy Isolated mated queens where the queens daughters are guaranteed to be 100% Buckfast, you can then happily breed a single generation of open mated queens from these. These are lovely queens , placid and very productive....but if you breed from these queens the result is as you have just described. Although in some regions this F2 generation is fine and it's the F3 where it goes wrong.

 

[Uncle Betty]

One of yours put it best. Fancy a guess the quotation I have in mind?

Been racking my brains... no good

Wilde had something to say about everyone.

Then again Yeats, like Newton, was into the occult.

John Toland ?

Go on then, hit me with it...

 

[B+.]

You need to buy Isolated mated queens where the queens daughters are guaranteed to be 100% Buckfast, you can then happily breed a single generation of open mated queens from these. These are lovely queens , placid and very productive....but if you breed from these queens the result is as you have just described. Although in some regions this F2 generation is fine and it's the F3 where it goes wrong.

Remind me again, what is a 100% Buckfast? ;-)

I raised first generation open mated queens (originally supplied by Br Adam & Peter Donovan) that were impossible to manage

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Go on then, hit me with it...

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

 

[Uncle Betty]

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”

― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

Indeed.

 

[SDM]

So that was just a petty comment then, wasn't it ?

Pity you aren't as well-bred as you claim your bees to be.

Simply me understanding that you don't care what your bees are like so long as they're local blacks.
Can't say I understand the logic behind it but each to their own.
As for my breeding,, stick to things you at least believe you know something about and I'm still not clear why you are posting on a thread looking for info on multiple queen sources.
Why not send him a queen so he can see what negligible selection and open imating Amm are like compared to others that have been recommended.

 

[B+.]

Why not send him a queen so he can see what negligible selection and open imating Amm are like compared to others that have been recommended.

Better yet, send one to ITLD. He'll give you an honest assessment.

 

[Uncle Betty]

Simply me understanding that you don't care what your bees are like so long as they're local blacks.

I actually said something very different to that.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=630668&postcount=103

More a case of 'Simple you not understanding', really. But as you said, each to their own.

I'm still not clear why you are posting on a thread looking for info on multiple queen sources.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=630428&postcount=26

As you know, threads go from there.

Run along now.

 

[Uncle Betty]

Why not send him a queen so he can see what negligible selection and open imating Amm are like compared to others that have been recommended.

Because my bees are none of his business, and none of yours.

I don't know what you fail to comprehend about that.

If I ever want what you want, I can easily afford to pay for it. Easily.

 

[B+.]

Because my bees are none of his business, and none of yours.

I hope you didn't mean that.
If your interest is in conservation, that's not a very enlightened view to take

 

[Noddy]

Because my bees are none of his business, and none of yours.

So why are you harping on about them in a public forum?

 

[Uncle Betty]

I hope you didn't mean that.
If your interest is in conservation, that's not a very enlightened view to take

I mean that I care a great deal about them, without requiring validation from people whose primary concern is not so much conservation as the need to earn a living.

So, the criteria being totally different what wold be gained ? Nothing, in my view.

 

[foghornleghorn]

So why are you harping on about them in a public forum?

As far as I've seen over here all local bees need smoke and greater than 80% will try to swarm annually if left to their own devices.
Uncle Betty seems to disputing that all local bees are swarmy, aggressive and poor producers but even many of our 'breeders' stock here is hard to classify as truly non swarmy and non aggressive

 

[Uncle Betty]

So why are you harping on about them in a public forum?

Well, first of all, it is a public forum.

Second of all, and if you read the thread more carefully - I am not 'harping on about them' in the sense of making any extraordinary claims for them. I do not do so.

I wanted to correct the 'silly hyperbole' of categorising all 'local' bees as 'Satan's spawn' and all that other silly nonsense that went on.

 

[Uncle Betty]

As far as I've seen over here all local bees need smoke and greater than 80% will try to swarm annually if left to their own devices.
Uncle Betty seems to disputing that all local bees are swarmy, aggressive and poor producers but even many of our 'breeders' stock here is hard to classify as truly non swarmy and non aggressive

I am disputing the nonsense description that all local bees are Satan's spawn/waste of hivespace/etc. etc.