Buckfast bees in Ieland

[For want of a better word]

Problem with "Ripe Fruit" is that it goes mouldy !
And that suits the alcoholics just fine!

 

[Norton]

Can't you think of something more unintelligent to post?

 

[Finman]

Can't you think of something more unintelligent to post?

OK, first I take my daily pills.

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[Norton]

I didn't mean you Finman.

 

[Tdf]

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How big is beekeeping in Ireland?

"Bees have been scarce over the last few years, but now a number of beekeepers have started selling hives, complete with bees, for €300 to €320 each.

Irish honey will always be in demand, but production has fallen in recent years, and around 200 tonnes were produced last year.

According to the CSO, we import 2000 tonnes of honey per year from all corners of the world. " Date 05-06-2010

http://www.farmersjournal.ie/site/farming-Is-there-money-in-Irish-honey--11112.html

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In Finland honey yield use to be 1500 tonnes annually.

Two biggest farmers produce here as much and whole Ireland.

50 kg x 4000 hives = 200 tonnes.

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We have too those "native bee" guys here. First we had a nuisance called "Black Bee Mongrel". Then varroa killed them almost totally. No one breeded then before. So we lost "ingenious genes of native bee" and it started the crying.

However at same to Carniolan bee came and it took Black bee's place.

Before that Finnish beekeeping assosiation did not want Carniolan bee to Finland but it came about 25 years ago.

Nowadays we can find from Finland what ever races: Egyptin, Russian, Chinese, Greek, German, Kenya mountain, Columbian, NZ, Cyprus, Italy....

Thery all are melted here and unproper ones die away.

My opinion is that it is splended that beekeepers personally use their money to make our bees better and healthier.
During 50 years beekeeping I have found that bees are becoming better and better.
I do not develope my "own bees". I buy "rippen fruits" from professionals which have about 500 hives.
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we dont have the good reliable summers you have finman

Would it not be more constructive to promote controlled mating programs amongst like minded beekeepers instead of trying to enforce a ban by proxy?

yes that would be ideal, but if in that beeks area there is a breeding group set up they would be unaware of foreign bees being brought in so all i am saying is to respect other people

 

[PBee]

yes that would be ideal, but if in that beeks area there is a breeding group set up they would be unaware of foreign bees being brought in so all i am saying is to respect other people

It is the responsibility of those wishing to control mating to use a method which dosen't seek to exclude others from keeping the (legally obtained) bees of their chioce. There are plenty of isolated sites to be had and all it takes is a bit of effort to co-ordinate groups to share the workload/travel involved. It would also represent a more scientific approach to achieving the desired results. Knowing the drone source is fairly crucial in any breeding program.

 

[Busy Bee]

Something I noticed last year was that when I harvested the honey the only bees to produce a surplus was AMM, last year was a particularly poor year but through all the weather the AMM flew, now the lighter mongrel strain although more prolific produced little honey hardly enough to feed themselves and ended up being fed from mid August onwards.

Now just this week my AMM was house keeping and 1 brave soul that I noticed brought home pollen not much but it was there, while the other mongrels are no where to be seen. Fair weather workers!

Draw your own conclusions

Busy Bee

 

[Finman]

Something I noticed last year was that when I harvested the honey the only bees to produce a surplus was AMM,

one year and 2 hives. You do not get any statistisc from that.


I have nursed German Black mongrels 30 years

Caucasian 10 years
Carniolan 10 years
Elgons 5 years
Buckfasts during 40 years (what ever they truly were)

Tens of strains of Italians during 40 years

Crossings of different races and crossing....not good idea for long distance

They have become better because do quite much work for that. Every year I compare hives and select mother queens and often I bye new queens to compare what they are doing.

Pastures have schanged during decades more than bees and they make more surprises than bees.

When I bye new queens, there is no quarantee what they are. I see it later.


It takes mostly several years to see and convince myself what is that new strain. Then I have met many times that my genepool has went wrong. One year I found that my hives are sensitive to nosema.


Like you have written that you have problems with EFB. I have not that problem during 40 years. Caucasian x Black bee was quite bad in that meaning.

And so on. But this make beekeeping interesting.
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[For want of a better word]

And so on. But this make beekeeping interesting. ......

So agree !

 

[Black Comb]

Finman
Where do Elgons originate?
First time I've heard of these.

 

[Norton]

From Mount Elgon, then to Sweden. It is A M monticola /Buckfast line.

 

[Tdf]

It is the responsibility of those wishing to control mating to use a method which dosen't seek to exclude others from keeping the (legally obtained) bees of their chioce. There are plenty of isolated sites to be had and all it takes is a bit of effort to co-ordinate groups to share the workload/travel involved. It would also represent a more scientific approach to achieving the desired results. Knowing the drone source is fairly crucial in any breeding program.

yes but it is important to still let them know so the necessary arrangements can be put in place now and not leaving it until the middle of summer when they start getting different colour stripes for them to know foreign bees are in the area

 

[Finman]

Finman
Where do Elgons originate?
First time I've heard of these.

It is man made bee like Buckfast. It is crossing between xx bees.
The name Elgon comes from Elgon mountain of Kenya.

It is said to be mite resistant but....Crossings Elgon x Italian bee were really evil sometimes.

..http://www.elgon.se/story/elgonbee.htm

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[dano41]

"AND before you lot lash out at me for being an Amm man.. I also keep Carniolian and New Zealand ( lingusta) bees. But try to keep their genes well apart!"
I for one certainly will not be lashing out at you or anyone else for keeping there preferred strain of bee.But could you please expand on what you are doing to"try to keep there genes well apart"
I have found out only recently that there are now Buckfast keepers in all parts of Ireland , all of the ones I talked two are not interested in conflict with beekeepers who keep other strains they think we can all works together.They have a wealth of knowledge which they would be more than willing to share but for now at least are content to let as Brother Adam did the Buckfast bee do its own propaganda.

 

[Finman]

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I had Italian and Buckfast bees together and it was not a bad mixture.

Once I got new queens from Slovenia and they were really bad without any crossings.

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[sorbus]

Buckfast bees in Ireland

10,000 years C.2days.Hmmmm..... The bees arrived before the trees and the flowers.
This figure has been quoted on other websites.

 

[Finman]

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HIstory of honeybees has derived quite much from imagination. No fossils have been seen to tell factcs. It was thought that European Honeybee eveloped in Europe and spreaded then to Near East and to Africa. The oldest anchestor was mellifera mellifera, so they thought.

OLD STORY http://www.bibba.com/origins_milner.php

NEW STORY http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061025181534.htm

Year 2006:
"Our analysis indicates that the honey bee, Apis mellifera, originated in Africa and spread into Europe by at least two ancient migrations," said Charles W. Whitfield, a professor of entomology at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign who is the lead author of a paper to appear in the Oct. 27 issue of the journal Science.

"The migrations resulted in two European populations that are geographically close, but genetically quite different," Whitfield said. "In fact, the two European populations are more related to honey bees in Africa than to each other."


From this we see how much professionals were missleaded. New knowledge only tells genetic relationship but it tells too that Black Bee is a newcomer. When, it is impossible to know.

Now someone 2-hive owner starts to write his own story about " Endemic Irish Honeybee", made in Africa.


But we all can admit that "We have life as long as we have hope".


I believe that Black Bees were allready in Wales and in Ireland when Basque people landed to the coast. Originally Ireland means "Beeland". And the Irish invented the proverb: "No money, no honey".

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[Finman]

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African honeybee.....they are many races....

We can understand it when we compare areas. Africa is 3 times that of Europe.

Europe is 10 mil km2
Sahara is 9 mil km2
Africa 30 mil km2

Ireland area 70 000 / Europe 10 000 000 = 0,7%

With this calculation Europe may have 1 000 endemic bee races and Africa has 2000.

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[For want of a better word]

Keeping the genetic variants apart..... II

 

[Busy Bee]

Finman, where in my post did you see that I have EFB and please don'y make assumptions from what you see in the Avatar.

Busy Bee

PS I have Blacks more than 1 season..and also I did nt mention that only on good seasonsdo the lighter strains produce more honey.... where are we gonna get good seasons, its been raining for 18 months!