British Standard National Beehive Design Improvements

[hiveabee]

I would suggest that if you are going to use plastic, I would be looking at the qualities of what they use for manufacturing double glazing frames.

 

[Oscarmonster]

I would suggest that if you are going to use plastic, I would be looking at the qualities of what they use for manufacturing double glazing frames.

Ah UPVC. Great stuff!

PVC is one of the most environmentally hazardous consumer materials ever producedx.

✦ Chlorine

PVC is the only major plastic that contains chlorine – the by-products are far more toxic, more persistent in the environment, and more likely to build up in the food supply & people’s bodies than similar chlorine-free chemicals. Chlorine production is one of the world’s most energy-intensive industrial processes, taking huge amounts of energy – about 1% of the world’s total electricity outputxi. Chlorine production for PVC uses an equivalent to the yearly output of eight medium-sized nuclear power plants. Chlorine production causes mercury pollution which causes severe reproductive, developmental, and neurological impacts at low doses. uPVC window frames continue to release mercury whilst in use & after they are disposed ofxii.

✦ Dioxin

The production of PVC is one of the main sources of dioxinxiii. Dioxin is thought to be the most toxic human-made chemicalxiv – the most potent carcinogen, and implicated in emphysema, disruption of the endocrine system, impaired child development, birth defects, neurotoxicity (damage to the brain or its function), and immune system suppression. Dioxin is a persistent bioaccumulative toxin (PBT) – it does not break down rapidly and travels around the globe, accumulating in fatty tissue and concentrating as it goes up the food chain. Dioxin exposure poses a risk of cancer thousands of times greater than the usual standard for acceptable risk. Dioxins concentrate in breast milk to the point that human infants now receive high doses, far bigger than for the average adult.

✦ Heavy metals

Because PVC catalyses its own decomposition, metal stabilisers are added to vinyl for construction and other extended-life applications. Common PVC additives are lead, cadmium, and organotins – all highly toxic.

 

[BKF Admin]

Why bother! The national is too small - go Commercial!

A great first post,you are going to fit right in around here

 

[hiveabee]

Ah UPVC. Great stuff!

PVC is one of the most environmentally hazardous consumer materials ever producedx.

✦ Chlorine

PVC is the only major plastic that contains chlorine – the by-products are far more toxic, more persistent in the environment, and more likely to build up in the food supply & people’s bodies than similar chlorine-free chemicals. Chlorine production is one of the world’s most energy-intensive industrial processes, taking huge amounts of energy – about 1% of the world’s total electricity outputxi. Chlorine production for PVC uses an equivalent to the yearly output of eight medium-sized nuclear power plants. Chlorine production causes mercury pollution which causes severe reproductive, developmental, and neurological impacts at low doses. uPVC window frames continue to release mercury whilst in use & after they are disposed ofxii.

✦ Dioxin

The production of PVC is one of the main sources of dioxinxiii. Dioxin is thought to be the most toxic human-made chemicalxiv – the most potent carcinogen, and implicated in emphysema, disruption of the endocrine system, impaired child development, birth defects, neurotoxicity (damage to the brain or its function), and immune system suppression. Dioxin is a persistent bioaccumulative toxin (PBT) – it does not break down rapidly and travels around the globe, accumulating in fatty tissue and concentrating as it goes up the food chain. Dioxin exposure poses a risk of cancer thousands of times greater than the usual standard for acceptable risk. Dioxins concentrate in breast milk to the point that human infants now receive high doses, far bigger than for the average adult.

✦ Heavy metals

Because PVC catalyses its own decomposition, metal stabilisers are added to vinyl for construction and other extended-life applications. Common PVC additives are lead, cadmium, and organotins – all highly toxic.

It is also one of the most recycled man made products

 

[user 6228]

Hi Everyone,

I am a product designer currently working on designing a plastic version of the British Standard National Beehive.
I would be grateful if people could give me feedback on how they feel the wooden British National Hive could be improved or any concerns they have regarding the performance of a plastic hive.

Thanks in advance,
Robert

List the performance criteria you wish to consider.
And the target market segments

 

[user 6228]

Mercury in chlorine production is obsolete.

 

[user 6228]

If you can come up with a cheap plastic hive, then I think you'll have a winner, if you can overcome the one biggest problem of plastic hives: plastic hives are often not strong enough for large hives, so the plastic bends and buckles, which means that the internal dimensions of the hives are no longer precisely correct... and with beekeeping, the internal dimensions must stay constant.

What would also be cool is if your design could be modular, in the sense that the hives are sold flat pack and are easily assembled. However, this would require even stronger plastic, to ensure that the hive walls don't buckle. I suspect, in fact, that a good plastic hive would be as bulky as a poly hive.

It would also be good if your hive is compatible with existing, wooden hives. On the other hand, having slight telescoping walls would make your hive more suited for travelling with the hives. Alternatively, don't make the walls telescoping but design a kind of strip that the beekeeper can attach to the place where the one box sits on top of the other box, which prevents the boxes from sliding off each other. Then your hive will be good for travelling and will have beespace that is compatible with wooden hives.

If you use the pre-war design (that is still used in the Netherlands with their spaarkast hive), and make the hive 465x465 mm on the outside, then you can make the hive easily out of the four identical walls plus the two frame rests that fit into small slots inside the four walls. If you do that, then you can also sell smaller frame rests that can be used with the exact same walls but which will allow the beekeeper to use Commercial frames, and bigger frame rests that will convert it into a Smith hive.

It would have been cool if you could somehow allow both Commercial and National box heights with the same generic components, although I suspect that you would not be able to do that.

I know nothing about plastics, but would it be an idea to make a hive that has thick, strong, sturdy corners, so that the four walls don't actually carry any weight, and the corners carry all the weight?

Plastic has many advantages over e.g. poly. Plastic does not let any water through nor does it absorb water. Depending on the type of plastic, you can wash it and clean it of all disease easily in the dishwasher. You can make the plastic walls "hollow" and fill them with an insulating substance. I suggest you take a look at the Turkish plastic hive's marketing materials.

Before you compare "plastic" to "plastic foams" I suggest acquiring some knowledge as EPS does not absorb water to any significant degree.

 

[Oscarmonster]

Mercury in chlorine production is obsolete.

Sorry if my source is not upto date.

However i think I'll stick with wood

 

[Gilberdyke John]

It is also one of the most recycled man made products

PVC seems to be extensively used in process industries because of its resistance to acid attack and simplicity of use, plus much lower cost than equivalent metals. Production of metals probably create far more nasties than production of pvc.

 

[Edwardking]

To answer your original question - go for it - we need to see more innovation and development. Wooden hives need painting or treating, easily suffer damage from mice, woodpeckers, etc. Also, with cheaper woods coming from China we'll see prices drop to new lows - so a plastic hive may not have a price advantage for long.

 

[psafloyd]

Hi Everyone,

I am a product designer currently working on designing a plastic version of the British Standard National Beehive.
I would be grateful if people could give me feedback on how they feel the wooden British National Hive could be improved or any concerns they have regarding the performance of a plastic hive.

Thanks in advance,
Robert

Given that a national made of cedar will last for a number of decades if cared for, how do you propose plastic as a medium will improve the design?

It is an efficient little unit, but beyond the means of those with basic woodworking skills to fabricate.

However, if it was dreadfully inconvenient, I dare say people would have switched to Langstroth in their droves by now.

 

[psafloyd]

One idea would be to simplify it by getting rid of the silly long luggs on the frames and making the box out of only 4 bits of wood

Or go Langstroth?

 

[mbc]

Why bother! The national is too small - go Commercial!

I like commercial hives, as a single brood box they provide a more "one size fits all" answer than does a national, but for my native Welsh bees, I find the bees overwinter better in the narrower configuration of the national, and when they need to expand double brood is easy, whereas I thinkl double brood with the commercial box would be just a bit silly.
Despite really liking commercials, if I was to start again I would stick to national, or even simpler still go for smith, and accept that sometimes a young vigorous queen will need more than one brood box to accommodate her nest.

 

[pargyle]

I must admit I was thinking of the same sort of plastic that they make things like the crates they use in the fishing industry for storing the catch and transporting it to market - they must be food safe and they are incredibly robust but I don't know what the actual plastic/polythene is ? Someone on here will know....

If they are made by injection moulding the sizing can be incredibly accurate and I could see a four sided box with interlocking lugs at the corners and a vertical hole down through all the lugs through which a rod locked the sides together being a very convenient hive that could be rapidly assembled/disassembled for storage and'or cleaning.

If the sides were moulded with internal voids that could be filled with an insulating foam then in would meet a lot of my criteria ...

Perhaps I should be redesigning my hive .... [Here I go again - reinventing the wheel !].

 

[mbc]

Doesnt anybody else immediately think of sweaty, clammy, dampness when envisaging plastic hives ?

 

[pargyle]

Doesnt anybody else immediately think of sweaty, clammy, dampness when envisaging plastic hives ?

Well ... I'm not really a fan of plastic anything (despite my posts on this thread) but DerekM's hives (whilst not plastic) are made from a non-permeable material and he doesn't get sweaty, clammy, dampness ... and his hives don't either !

I think he will be along to tell us that problems with humidity are not attributable to the materials hives are made of but more to the way hives are used ?

 

[mbc]

Or go Langstroth?

Another sensible alternative.

 

[alanf]

Could you point me in the direction of where I could find these threads...

A serious suggestion, I would first check out what is available in wood from the largest UK manufacturer, Thornes have PDF version of the catalogue on the website. Then what is available in plastic for national and other formats. Several manufacturers, but Swienty is probably as good a place to start as any. They do plastic versions of a lot of kit including ""National" for the uk market plus plastic frames and they have an online version of their catalogue.

If you think you can improve something, great. But be aware that several new or improved products have been produced every year since the mid 1800s. Some have been successful, stayed in production for a few years. A few have lasted many years. Most are curiosities or historical footnotes.

And one observation. An area that has shown interest and a few designs in recent years is hive monitoring. But all the designs bolt on to a standard hive. What I haven't seen is a hive design that has enabling instrumentation built in.

 

[user 6228]

Doesnt anybody else immediately think of sweaty, clammy, dampness when envisaging plastic hives ?

oddly
Expanded Polystyrene is porous to water vapour...
...

 

[itma]

Hi Everyone,

I am a product designer currently working on designing a plastic version of the British Standard National Beehive.
I would be grateful if people could give me feedback on how they feel the wooden British National Hive could be improved or any concerns they have regarding the performance of a plastic hive.

Thanks in advance,
Robert

Robert, about this time of year the forum gets lots of design students fishing for ideas for their project tasks.
The forum search function should turn up a good few for you.

A real project starts with a market survey, looking at the size of the market, the compeditors and price points.
That feeds back to give an idea of possible production volume and production unit costs. That in turn sets some limits on what can be spent on materials and tooling.
Large high pressure injection moulds are (very) expensive.
'Engineering' plastics that don't warp and distort when they come out of an injection mould are pretty expensive for products weighing a few kilos. And much of the product "design" is about making shapes that won't distort!

But the market for "National" hives is pretty small. It is essentially UK-only, so export markets aren't going to contribute increased production volumes.
There are (at least) four players already in the plastic ("poly") National market. (EDIT - plus the Omlet Beehaus version of the 14x12)
Many hobby beekeepers (the principal market for Nationals IMHO) actually prefer a 'traditional' wooden product.
So, you are fighting for a share of a market that in total is only a few thousand units per year.

The materials and processes chosen for existing products provide valuable lessons as to real-world compromises.
There is an interesting mould-tool-cost equation between the approach of moulding the box in one shot, and moulding it as 2x 2 different sides.

It has to be understood that the 3 sizes of National box (shallow/super, deep/brood and jumbo/"14x12" are different only in the length of the 'tube' between the top and bottom details, and it might be that that is how the "single moulding"
tooling is constructed to enable the product to be sold against products made with much smaller (cheaper) mould tools.
But moulding large (empty) boxes makes for higher transport and storage costs - which then impact upon batch size economics, which then takes you back to tooling and process design!

Design 'cleverness' in this business is not about adding 'features' to a defined standard product - it isn't a steam iron or a vacuum cleaner.
Rather the cleverness comes in how the things can be made economically.

There are interesting lessons to be learned by 'benchmarking' the competition and their design choices.


Now, how can the tooling be designed to make it a low-cost option to offer the choice of top or bottom beespace mouldings or use?