Breeding group progress

[B+.]

As a general rule I find methods similar to the brother Adam / Mike Palmer methods i.e. massive queenless starter finishers the most reliable if you are wanting large quantities of cells and are wanting them early or late in the season. .

Incidentally Br Adam wasn't the originator of this method. As a German speaker, he was simply copying what they were already doing in Germany (and probably elsewhere). They called them "Bee Barns".
From a historical perspective, I think its amusing that Mike Palmer calls them "Bee Bombs" - which is quite similar. If you read enough, you come across stuff like this a lot

 

[mbc]

I can't speak for anyone else but personally I don't stick to just one queen rearing method.

Same here.
Early and late a hopelessly queenless starter is better in my opinion but through the bulk of the breeding season I'll use cloak boards and also like to try out variations too to see what'll fit in with how I do things.
Always being open to learning new tricks is all part of the fun!

 

[Beefriendly]

Watch Mike Palmers queen rearing presentation. He explains it there.

You are making the mistake of thinking what works for a commercial beekeeper is also suitable for a hobbyist.
Not many have enough hives to dedicate a queenless one to queen rearing., they also don't need to rear that number of queens. That is the beauty of using a Cloake Board and a queenright colony.

 

[madasafish]

You are making the mistake of thinking what works for a commercial beekeeper is also suitable for a hobbyist.
Not many have enough hives to dedicate a queenless one to queen rearing., they also don't need to rear that number of queens. That is the beauty of using a Cloake Board and a queenright colony.

I have reared between 12-17 queens a year for the last two years. I would like to get to around 25:- 12 would be for current use, 3-4 for a reserve over winter and the rest for sale to local Association members.

With only 8 full hives, finding enough bees in Spring to stock mating nucs AND have a Queen rearing hive is always a struggle - so I use Cloake Boards .

 

[B+.]

You are making the mistake of thinking what works for a commercial beekeeper is also suitable for a hobbyist.
Not many have enough hives to dedicate a queenless one to queen rearing., they also don't need to rear that number of queens. That is the beauty of using a Cloake Board and a queenright colony.

Not at all. I expressed my opinion that smoking bees up through a queen excluder into a box you want to raise queen cells in isn't the best way to do it. There is no mistake. But, there again, I suppose this is where the half-starved runts that can pass through a queen excluder come from

IMHO there is too much of this telling people that you can raise queens in deprived conditions. YOU CAN, but if you want the best well fed queens with fully developed ovaries YOU SHOULDN'T. Stunted queens are quickly superseded anyway. I hear it all the time on this forum

Where is the "joined up" thinking? Making do with sub-optimal rearing conditions causes problems later on in the process.

In any case, you've succeeded in doing what you set out to do - took another thread off-topic and ruined it. Why can't people keep to the topic or start their own thread?

 

[mbc]

Not at all. I expressed my opinion that smoking bees up through a queen excluder into a box you want to raise queen cells in isn't the best way to do it. There is no mistake. But, there again, I suppose this is where the half-starved runts that can pass through a queen excluder come from

IMHO there is too much of this telling people that you can raise queens in deprived conditions. YOU CAN, but if you want the best well fed queens with fully developed ovaries YOU SHOULDN'T. Stunted queens are quickly superseded anyway. I hear it all the time on this forum

Where is the "joined up" thinking? Making do with sub-optimal rearing conditions causes problems later on in the process.

In any case, you've succeeded in doing what you set out to do - took another thread off-topic and ruined it. Why can't people keep to the topic or start their own thread?

Have I missed a post? Where is smoking bees up mentioned?
If you don't understand how to use a cloak board Sue Colby has a good description on the interweb or it's clearly explained in David Woodward's book, Queen bee; biology, rearing and breeding.

 

[mbc]

https://www.scribd.com/doc/179010493/Cloake-Board-Method-of-Queen-Rearing-and-Banking-Sue-Cobey-1
There you go.

 

[For want of a better word]

In any case, you've succeeded in doing what you set out to do - took another thread off-topic and ruined it. Why can't people keep to the topic or start their own thread?

I feel your pain!

A Facebook it seems Group is the way to go... then you can keep anyone who should deign to disagree in check!

 

[B+.]

Have I missed a post? Where is smoking bees up mentioned?
If you don't understand how to use a cloak board Sue Colby has a good description on the interweb or it's clearly explained in David Woodward's book, Queen bee; biology, rearing and breeding.

Because....unless you smoke them up you have even fewer nurse bees...plenty of old foragers though (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloake_board). Like I said: a daft idea - but, if that's how you want to raise your queens, don't let me stop you.

 

[mbc]

Because....unless you smoke them up you have even fewer nurse bees...plenty of old foragers though (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloake_board). Like I said: a daft idea - but, if that's how you want to raise your queens, don't let me stop you.

At the risk of repeating myself:

If you don't understand how to use a cloak board Sue Colby has a good description on the interweb or it's clearly explained in David Woodward's book, Queen bee; biology, rearing and breeding.
url]https://www.scribd.com/doc/179010493/Cloake-Board-Method-of-Queen-Rearing-and-Banking-Sue-Cobey-1[/url]
There you go.
you can lead a horse to water....

 

[Finman]

.
Experienced beekeepers are again teaching each others, how to rear queens.
.

 

[Beefriendly]

Not at all. I expressed my opinion that smoking bees up through a queen excluder into a box you want to raise queen cells in isn't the best way to do it. :

You obviously have no idea how a Cloake board works.
I can assure you no smoke at all is involved. You allow the brood to draw the nurse bees above a queen excluder.
Suggest you read Woodwards book on queen rearing where he explains it in simple terms.

 

[Beefriendly]

Because....unless you smoke them up you have even fewer nurse bees...plenty of old foragers though (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloake_board). Like I said: a daft idea - but, if that's how you want to raise your queens, don't let me stop you.

LOL simply don't believe all that is written on Wiki, they have got it all so wrong it's laughable. They don't have a clue.....as it seems ......
I'll give you the starting moves of using a Cloake board.....
Arrange the colony several days before the graft is planned. Confine the queen to the bottom super, below an excluder. Place the Cloake division board, without the slide, between the two hive bodies. Bring up several frames of young open brood from the bottom box into the top brood box to attract nurse bee up.......NO SMOKE needed.

 

[Beefriendly]

In any case, you've succeeded in doing what you set out to do - took another thread off-topic and ruined it. Why can't people keep to the topic or start their own thread?

Nothing to do with taking a thread off topic. You did that when you poo-pooed a really good method of queen rearing without an understanding of how it works.....smoke the bees up...LOL.
If I can succeed in getting you to understand how a Cloake board works it will be mission accomplished.

 

[B+.]

You obviously have no idea how a Cloake board works.
I can assure you no smoke at all is involved. You allow the brood to draw the nurse bees above a queen excluder.
Suggest you read Woodwards book on queen rearing where he explains it in simple terms.

I understand. However, simply giving them a different entrance only transfers old foragers. To rear good queens you need young nurse bees. The only way to accomplish that is to transfer them (either with smoke or manually moving frames - you don't want larvae up in the cell raiser so transferring frames up is a bad idea).
I have read Woodwards book. It is generally quite good for beginners but a bit basic for queen breeding (his examples ore only simple ranked averages)

 

[B+.]

Nothing to do with taking a thread off topic. You did that when you poo-pooed a really good method of queen rearing without an understanding of how it works.....smoke the bees up...LOL.
If I can succeed in getting you to understand how a Cloake board works it will be mission accomplished.

Actually, you are wrong (again). I started this thread to talk about progress made in breeding in BeeBreed (especially BeeBreed-NL), MASTERBK took it off topic by raising the topic of the Cloake board (which has been discussed many times on this forum - see post #50).
It seems that every time I start a thread about proper breeding, it is dragged down to the lowest common denominator (simple queen rearing). I'm getting a bit sick of it. Where is the moderation?