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B+. said:
Yes. Health certificates are required (from APHA or a "competent authority") for any international shipment of live animals. It is controlled through a system called "TRACES" but anyone with cattle, horses, etc will know about this. Its no big deal.
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Yes, Traces is easy to get going, but you also need to consider there are both export and import licences involved as you are sending out and receiving. The receiving may be the problem as they need inspection in the country they are send from....so it may end up not being very practical. I'll have a chat with my local inspectors and see if they can advise further.

I'm afraid your links just take me to a site where I need to input a breeder number password etc.
But I wouldn't be too interested in Carnica mating sites (at the moment....but one never knows).
Irish Buckfast used to advertise that people could bring their queens to their valley for mating, but the web site seems to have changed and this facility is no longer offered (or I can't find it).
 
Beefriendly said:
Yes, Traces is easy to get going, but you also need to consider there are both export and import licences involved as you are sending out and receiving.
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As you might expect, you do need health certificates whenever livestock passes in/out of the UK. This applies to live bee imports too. If they are coming to/from the EU this is all you need (a copy of the health certificate has to be sent to APHA) but, if they are coming from other areas of the world, there may be additional requirements (see BeeBase for specific requirements).
I believe that there are mating stations for Buckfast too but I don't have any information on them. I only have information on Carnica because that is what I use.

You don't need to log in to the public area of BeeBreed (www.beebreed.eu). This should allow you access to the facility I described above.
The majority of people would use stock from a recognised breeder to get established, not open-mated queens, so in this sense it is a closed population. You can hardly expect it to be otherwise though as there has to be some checks on the integrity of the information. Otherwise it would lose all credibility. Another requirement which I haven't touched upon is that mating cages are completely free of drones. That is why they are single comb boxes with glass sides. If they are found to contain any drones, the mating station supervisor won't accept the mating cage. He will just send it straight back without even opening it (for obvious reasons).
 
On second thoughts it's far easier to let someone else do all the hard work and then reward them with Euros for queens of known pedigree.

There are some 1950's (60's?) German videos somewhere on u-tube which I saw several years ago. They demonstrate the packing and sending (by train) of queens for mating at isolated stations....mating stations, not train stations :) . There was the mating station warden checking the cages for tickets and illegal drones. And there was an amazing scene showing hundreds and hundreds of these mating boxes attached to the top of posts. My thoughts where would you get back the same queen you sent? No guarantee of that.
So non of this is particularity new.....perhaps to the UK thought, where we mainly have open random mating's accepted as the norm in any bee breeding scheme. I figure that shows the level of bee improvement we aspire to.
 
Beefriendly said:
There are some 1950's (60's?) German videos somewhere on u-tube which I saw several years ago. They demonstrate the packing and sending (by train) of queens for mating at isolated stations....mating stations, not train stations :) ..
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Yeah. I put them all on my YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIsQ_z2syxMF7feqmNm415w). I think you're referring to the queen rearing one althugh there is also a short clip of an island mating station in the one about instrumental insemination. They would have had to go by ferry to one of the islands.
Each mating box contains the name and breeder id as well as having the breeding card under the lid. Also, the queens all have plastic opilath plates stuck to their thorax. You would know if it wasn't yours
 
Finman said:
You must have quite a big beekeeping if you need those

.
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The idea is to get groups of sisters that are mated to the same group of drones Finman.
There will always be variation in the eggs a (2a) queen lays so its important to test groups of sisters and select the best for further propagation.
 
B+. said:
The idea is to get groups of sisters that are mated to the same group of drones Finman.
There will always be variation in the eggs a (2a) queen lays so its important to test groups of sisters and select the best for further propagation.
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But if you have 20-30 hives, it is vain job to keep your own bee strain and keep it pure. I know that.
 
B+. said:
It would be more difficult but, if you sent virgins to mate at a mating station, it could be done....at least in a limited sense.
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You would need a major reason or dedication to do this as a hobbyist. Be far less trouble to go for II, if that is the direction you want to take your beekeeping.
Whilst I enjoy rearing queens, currently I'm not interested in setting out on a long term improvement breeding program when the ones I purchase are so much better than anything I could ever breed.
Which reminds me to ask you when are the queens of this huge International Carnica improvement program going to be available for the ordinary Jo to purchase?
 
Beefriendly said:
Which reminds me to ask you when are the queens of this huge International Carnica improvement program going to be available for the ordinary Jo to purchase?
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They're available now. I buy 10 island mated A.m.c. every year from I.B.Celle.
I suspect that what you're really asking is when will the programme end. Thats impossible to answer because a programme is all about continuous improvement. In that sense, it will never end so long as breeders have the desire to improve on what we already have.

If you mean the NL-Line and VSH line, it is still early days although the C-VarroaToleranz (code 70) line are available from the AGT now (http://www.toleranzzucht.de/en/queens/)
 
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B+. said:
They're available now. I buy 10 island mated A.m.c. every year from I.B.Celle.
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When I go the queen ordering page it comes up as blank.
The breeders page lists breeders....but doesn't say whether they sell queens...This is like going round in circles :hairpull:......I'll put it another way they don't make it easy.

Could you please post the link for the Island mated queens from I.B.Cell. Their web site doesn't show queens as being available.
 
Beefriendly said:
When I go the queen ordering page it comes up as blank.
The breeders page lists breeders....but doesn't say whether they sell queens...This is like going round in circles :hairpull:......I'll put it another way they don't make it easy.

Could you please post the link for the Island mated queens from I.B.Cell. Their web site doesn't show queens as being available.
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I think thats a translation problem with the English portion of the AGT site. Click the German flag and everything is there (if you use a browser like google chrome, it can translate it instantly for you).
The IB Celle website (http://www.laves.niedersachsen.de/w...te/institut-fuer-bienenkunde-celle-73995.html) has their full contact details at the bottom of the page:
Nds. Landesamt für Verbraucherschutz und Lebensmittelsicherheit
Institut für Bienenkunde
Herzogin-Eleonore-Allee 5
29221 Celle
Tel.: 0 51 41/ 9 05 03-40
Fax: 0 51 41/ 9 05 03-44
[email protected]

This is the state ministry of Lower Saxony (a bit like our APHA) so things can appear a bit beaurocratic sometimes. Its the same with government agencies eveywhere!
I generally communicate with a guy called Sven Biermann who speaks pretty good English
 
Thanks, I shall make contact and see what they have to say.
 
B+. said:
This is the state ministry of Lower Saxony (a bit like our APHA)
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Good on them but it's hard not to draw a comparison with our own bee unit who rather than working to improve any sort of bee to offer to the public, import queens from other countries for their own apiary, pocket all the eu monies available for beekeeping for their own enforcement purposes, police beekeepers to make sure we spend over the odds on apibioxal and prosecute beekeepers who buy in necessary medicines quickly because they failed to supply them in time.
Imagine where our bees could be if we'd had similar state sponsorship and support.
This is one argument for breeding natives, there's still enormous room for improvement, in contrast to carnica or ligurian bees which have had serious resources from proffesional and government bodies allocated to improving the strains for decades and decades, in true British fashion amm improvement has been left to the slightly odd bloke in his shed.
 
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mbc said:
, in true British fashion amm improvement has been left to the slightly odd bloke in his shed.
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I think there are quite a few "slightly odd blokes" on this forum (possibly even a requirement) but you have to wonder why so many countries are turning away from A.m.m in favour of A.m.c. My own experience is that they are far more amenable and productive than any other bee I have worked with. This is why most people prefer it.
 
mbc said:
This is one argument for breeding natives, there's still enormous room for improvement, in contrast to carnica or ligurian bees which have had serious resources from proffesional and government bodies allocated to improving the strains for decades and decades, in true British fashion amm improvement has been left to the slightly odd bloke in his shed.
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Spot on. All the major bee strains have been bred for improvement apart from the old Amm which currently is relegated to being bred solely to prevent further introgression of any more "alien" genes (i.e purity and negative discoidal shifts).
There may be hidden potential that is yet to be unearthed. But until it is I suspect most will just shrug and use something better.
 
B+. said:
It would be more difficult but, if you sent virgins to mate at a mating station, it could be done....at least in a limited sense.
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Yeah. You must mate them on mating station because mite resistant F1 hybrids do not keep their ability to kill mites.

.
 
Finman said:
Yeah. You must mate them on mating station because mite resistant F1 hybrids do not keep their ability to kill mites.

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I'm guessing that you mean in subsequent generations of uncontrolled mating Finman?
Of course. Its like buying a high performance sports car and entering it in a destruction Derby. If you want something to last, you have to maintain it.
 
B+. said:
Its like buying a high performance sports car .
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But it goes on motorways as fast as KIA. And in forest ?



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