Breeding for mite tolerance

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Fusion,

"...to understand why Langstroth hive bodies are such a poor compromise..."

What were your discoveries here regarding Langstroths and potential better options and why? What format are you on now? And what exactly are the "square deep" hives you want to convert to?

This has been an interesting discussion
 
Langstroth 9 5/8 hives are what I am currently running and have used for 46 years. I am in process of converting to square hives of Dadant 11 5/8 depth. I am making my own frames and have arranged to purchase tops, bottoms, hive bodies, and supers from this business at a price cheaper than I can purchase the lumber. https://lawrencecobee.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/2015-cypress-bee-equipment-pricelist.pdf

Understanding the limitations of Langstroth equipment first requires some understanding of my climate and the methods I choose to use in keeping bees. My climate is hot and humid as a rule with temps up to 110 in July and August. Spring starts with pollen flow in early to mid February, main nectar flow starts about April 25th and normally ends in early June, there is normally a dearth in July and August, then mid to late August a fall flow from goldenrod and aster. Cold weather usually begins about October 15th with aster continuing to produce some nectar and pollen into early November. By December, temps drop below freezing and range between -10C and +15C through mid March.

Here are some of the limits I want to overcome:

I decided that I want to do as little feeding of my bees as possible. This brings an inherent issue that a single Langstroth hive body does not hold quite enough honey plus cluster space plus bees for a good overwintering colony. I've used a Langstroth 9 5/8 plus a 5 11/16 shallow for years to accommodate this limit. The deep plus shallow has a problem that the frames are different sizes therefore not easily interchangeable. Running two Langstroth deeps over winter means leaving a significant amount of honey that could have been harvested and sold.

A Langstroth deep is inherently limited in that a queen will be reluctant to cross into the box above to lay eggs. This reduces egg laying - and in my climate - produces an increase in swarming tendency. If the queen does lay readily in both boxes, I wind up with 20 frames to inspect to find the queen.

Running a 2 queen setup in a Langstroth requires running them vertically with one above the other. This can cause problems with having to move too many boxes to do basic spring manipulations.

Langstroth boxes stack up too high when the honey flow is on. I've had stacks 8 feet high. A strong wind can blow over such a stack.

Here are some of the disadvantages inherent in changing:

1. non-standard equipment that can't be purchased from suppliers here in the U.S.
2. Weight in a single brood box (not good for bad backs)
3. Wintering concerns if the combs do not contain crossover holes
4. Many extractors won't work with the larger frames (I verified that my extractor can do the job)

Here are some of the advantages I expect to find with the square deep 11 5/8 hives:

1. Permits use of a single box for all the brood produced by a single queen
2. Reduces the number of frames that have to be inspected when manipulating the broodnest
3. Properly positions the colony to produce honey from a fall flow that otherwise would be placed in the broodnest
4. Reduces cost of equipment by using one box instead of 2 for broodnest
5. Does not present a barrier to the queen from moving across honey to lay eggs
6. Can be readily adapted for a side by side two queen operation
 
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Fusion, you have arranged your own traps with your principles. Nothing wrong in Lsngstroth boxes. I extract all honey from brood frames. Then I feed on average 20 kg sugar/hive.

20 kg honey / is a big heap of honey.
Your short winter should not be any problem.

Dadant will not save you in this issue.

2 queen hives? Why don't you select such queens which lay 2 langstroth boxes full. It means perhaps 16 frames brood, but not more. I discard such queens which are not able to lay 2 boxes full.
 
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Yes Finman, you feed your bees sugar and you treat them for mites. This is a common beekeeper paradigm today. Where do you winter your bees? Have you thought about putting them in an indoor wintering facility? If you did, they would need less sugar. Friends in Canada use indoor wintering to very good effect.
 
Yes Finman, you feed your bees sugar and you treat them for mites. This is a common beekeeper paradigm today. Where do you winter your bees? Have you thought about putting them in an indoor wintering facility? If you did, they would need less sugar. Friends in Canada use indoor wintering to very good effect.

There is no problem to winter them outside in insulated hives.
I have had polyhives almost 30 years.

I wonder the price of sugar in USA. Is it really 2$/kg. In Europe price is 0.8-0.5 €
1$=1€ today

Yeah, to feed sugar and treat varroa with chemicals, it is paradigma if you want to make it such.

Canada does not use insulated hives. They have same boxes as in Florida. I Alaska they use those Florida boxes too. But, Canada has much more colder there than we have in Finland.
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My cat is bigger and Blacker than your bigger black Cat.

British beekeepers cannot compete with honey yields, but they compete, who feeds most expencive sugar for winter. 6 fold prices are not rare.

In mite tolerant bee stocks yields are often low. The parasite takes its own from master animal.

I would say that mite treatment with tolerance genes is huge expencive. It is like top bar beekeeping. Nothing is so expencive than run those low 200 y old systems.

And very few animal keeper let the parasites live in peace in his domestic animals.

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Sugar in the U.S. costs the equivalent of 20 euros for 22 kilograms of sugar. It is much cheaper in Mexico and most other countries that do not use price supports and tariffs to maintain artificially high prices. Mexico is about 1/5 the price we pay.
 
Sugar in the U.S. costs the equivalent of 20 euros for 22 kilograms of sugar. It is much cheaper in Mexico and most other countries that do not use price supports and tariffs to maintain artificially high prices. Mexico is about 1/5 the price we pay.

Do customs inspectors get concerned if you try to bring bags of white, sweet stuff over the Mexican border?
 
JBM, the blood farting, **** orientated missile.

Quality lol
 
JBM, the blood farting, **** orientated missile.

Quality lol

:icon_204-2::icon_204-2: Takes Finnie's insults down to an almost subterranean level .... it's a distinct improvement on what he's called me over the years ... God, I had to put my coffee down !! Not laughed so much in years ... a less realistic set of adjectives could never have been applied to JBM !!
 
Actually....No.
SmartBees is a straight lift of BeeBreed/AGT which is based on original research mainly published by Prof Kaspar Bienefeld and Dr Ralph Buchler

I stand corrected - thank you - I do think it is important to attribute credit correctly, especially when others claim it.
 
A Langstroth deep is inherently limited in that a queen will be reluctant to cross into the box above to lay eggs. This reduces egg laying - and in my climate - produces an increase in swarming tendency.

I've kept bees in double and triple Langstroth deeps for 40+ years, and I've never found that the queens hesitated to cross the inter-frame gap, or that multiple boxes increased the incidence of swarming.
 
I've kept bees in double and triple Langstroth deeps for 40+ years, and I've never found that the queens hesitated to cross the inter-frame gap, or that multiple boxes increased the incidence of swarming.

I have noticed that the Queen is not able to lay more than one box, it stays in that box.

Many beekeepers think that the laying capacity depends on the space what you give to the Queen. But it is not so at all.
 
You forgot the bessie bug. Finman clearly invoked a bessie bug that lays eggs in rolled up balls of manure in the pasture. Finman, what were you doing digging black beetles out of manure? Inquiring minds want to know. (or maybe they DON'T want to know) Manure and flattery both smell sweet at first, but the manure will improve your soil.


Please keep in mind that beekeeping is a very local occupation. What I see and do is not necessarily true for other locations.

I can get queens to lay in up to 18 Langstroth frames. I don't enjoy working with two Langstroth deeps to get that number of frames of capacity so I am taking steps to convert to a bigger brood box.

It might help if I describe the underlying triggers that lead to increased swarming. We have a fairly strong early flow from fruit bloom and dandelion starting about mid March. This segues into bramble bloom from early April to about April 25th. My bees wind up filling a significant amount of their brood comb on these early flows. This pushes the queen down into the bottom box on a reduced number of combs and encourages the bees to swarm. A standard intervention with double Langs is to reverse top and bottom to break up this honey arrangement thereby reducing the swarming tendency. Reversing is ineffective for me, probably because of the genetics of my bees and from the strength of the early flows. I want to flatten the brood structure by putting honey supers on top of a dadant box while maintaining the equivalent brood capacity of a double Langstroth configuration.
 
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balls of manure in the pasture

sounds like discarded sun hives... or is this some kind of code?

Yeghes da
 
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