Breeding for mite tolerance

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Today you listed brood breaks and in earlier post said they were very swarmy. Surely the brood break from swarming is a major factor in limiting Varroa build up. Also Am.m tends to take a long brood break in winter.
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If I let them swarm, they get a brood break. Do you think I actually let my bees swarm? I like to put honey in jars at the end of summer. Bees that swarm don't make much honey. One or two still manage to get away each year, but most do not swarm. This takes quite a bit of work on my part so I would like to breed for reduced swarming tendency.

Finman, you have knowledge of what works in your area. You don't know what works here where I live just as I don't know what is needed to make a crop of honey in Finland. I've used Italians, Carniolans, Caucasians, Buckfast, and Black Bees to produce honey. I prefer Buckfast for making honey, but right now, my bees are not Buckfast. They are highly mite tolerant mutts and slowly moving in the direction of becoming good honey producers.
 
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Fusion_power said:
You don't know what works here where I live just as I don't know what is needed to make a crop of honey in Finland. I've used Italians, Carniolans, Caucasians, Buckfast, and Black Bees to produce honey. I prefer Buckfast for making honey, but right now, my bees are not Buckfast. They are highly mite tolerant mutts and slowly moving in the direction of becoming good honey producers.
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I need not to know what works there. That is sure.
Why your yields are so small, that I do not know either. But mostly in southers countries hive density is so big that there are not enough nectar to all foragers.

I have nursed same same bee races as you have. Black bee is the worst. That is why it is so rare in beekeeping. I nursed Black Bees 25 years. I had to, because they mated with all pure virgins what I used.

But actually good yields come from good pastures.

I keep in my hives 6-7 langstroth boxes. It can catch the nectar crop from field when nature offers it to me. If the hive is smaller, like 4 boxes, I join them.

In my area willows start to bloom first if May and yield season is over at the end of July.

Here the most important is good spring build up.

I have had mites since 1982. Nothing strange in them.

.
 
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What is needed to make honey crop in Finland.... Skills, and nothing else. Nothing drops from heaven for free.
 
I can see Finman out there now using his "skill" to make honey. I must be a bit old fashioned, I let my bees make honey.

Finman, Why on earth would you use Langstroth equipment for such huge colonies. Seems to me that a strong man who has only 50 years of beekeeping could at least move up to Square Deep Dadant 11 5/8 woodenware. The most I could ever get was 18 frames of brood in double Langstroths.
 
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Fusion_power said:
I can see Finman out there now using his "skill" to make honey. I must be a bit old fashioned, I let my bees make honey.

Finman, Why on earth would you use Langstroth equipment for such huge colonies. Seems to me that a strong man who has only 50 years of beekeeping could at least move up to Square Deep Dadant 11 5/8 woodenware. The most I could ever get was 18 frames of brood in double Langstroths.
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Yes, they like to use dadant frames in eastern Europe. Then the hive is heavy, and the frames too, it is laborous job to steal such hives. And angry hives more over. IT is a Strategy in East!
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2.5 kg honey in langstroth frame is enough to me.

We use American standard langstroths and mediums.
For brood I use 3 Langstroths, and no excluder.

IT is easy to make big hives, but more difficult is to evaluate, where I move them every year.

When pastures are good, even lazy colony starts foraging.

.

.
 
beeno said:
Hi Charlie, I have not read this paper, but I spoke to the man and his researcher. She did not know his winter losses and he did not want to disclose them. Why?
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I visited the Swindon apiary last year. There are 80 hives and the winter losses were negligible (maybe 2 colonies). I do not know why the researcher would not say, however, the contribution of the beekeeper behind this, Ron Hoskins, seems to be being downplayed by the virologists. Ron has been working systematically on breeding varroa resistant bees for 20 years, using microscopy to examine ejected varroa, instrumental insemination to reinforce bloodlines and keeping meticulous records. My impression is that he has been doing what the SMARTBEES project and B+ have been doing, for longer, but the mainstream British beekeeping establishment has been ignoring him, and the DNA scientists behind the virology research are disrespectful as he is not in their peer group.

I wrote a report of my visit to him here, if you want more details on his operation. Or,view his group's own website.
 
oxnatbees said:
My impression is that he has been doing what the SMARTBEES project and B+ have been doing, for longer,
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Actually....No.
SmartBees is a straight lift of BeeBreed/AGT which is based on original research mainly published by Prof Kaspar Bienefeld and Dr Ralph Buchler
 
oxnatbees said:
I

I wrote a report of my visit to him here, if you want more details on his operation. Or,view his group's own website.
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The advertising of that conservation group us so shildish, that I do not trust on that kind of gang.

"Their work is unique in Britain and perhaps in the world" seems more religion than bee breeding.
Not at least scientic research.
 
Finman, surely you can point out a breeding program in Finland that is producing mite tolerant bees. If not, I'm not sure there are actually beekeepers in Finland. Perhaps your bees make such big colonies that the mites take one look and leave for easier targets.
 
Fusion_power said:
Finman, surely you can point out a breeding program in Finland that is producing mite tolerant bees. If not, I'm not sure there are actually beekeepers in Finland. Perhaps your bees make such big colonies that the mites take one look and leave for easier targets.
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You can imagine what ever. ...

We live at same altitude as Alaska. Anchorage is at same level as Helsinki.

University of Fairbanks recommends that it is better to kill colonies and buy new package bees from Australia. With your 40% annual hive losses I would keep my mouth shut.

You know, you have not in USA such beestrains, which are able to survive at the height of 60 degree. They are all same stock from Florida to Michigan. The Alaska... What is Alaska! Not even insulated hives there.

You have in Michican bees, which need 60 kg winter food to survive over short winter.

Our bees consume an average 20 kg Sugar from September to May.

Our two polyhive producers sell polyhives to all over Europe and even to USA and to Aystralia ( mad guys, I would say)

Fusion, do not teach duck to swim.

Varroa is not so important buck, that you should sacrifice your life and business for that.

We have Lunden and Elgon man Sven Olsson. They have their private systems, which have nothing to do with Finnish beekeeping.

Sven Olsson told something about Florida beekeeping and about varroa, and it was nothing nice to hear. He has visited in Florida 2 years ago.
 
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Fusion, do not teach duck to swim.
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But Finman, you are not a duck. By your own admission, you are the finest beekeeper in Finland. Except that there are a few beekeepers in Finland who might challenge that presumption.

As for Florida beekeepers, most of them are fair weather beekeepers.

Juhani happens to be a more than passing acquaintance. I think he at times wishes he had access to some of the genetics used in the U.S. Give him time and I think he will achieve his goals. He is much closer now than 10 years ago, but has had several setbacks.

As for sacrifices, I'm not giving up anything with my bees. They thrive in an area with varroa. They make a decent crop of honey. Now I am asking them to produce more honey. Give me a few years and they will both tolerate varroa and produce more honey. They don't do too bad for now, I regularly get 40 kilos per colony and a good colony can double that or a bit more.
 
.my average yields are 80-90 kg and every summer some hive gets 150 kg.

Our yield seson is 1.5 months long.

But like I said, good yields come from pastures.

I had 45 years ago 40 kg average yields and 40 years ago 60 kg.

1994 I had 130 kg average yield.

The worst average yield during last 30 years is 37 kg.


Nowadays I keep 1-4 hives at same point. All hives are in cottage yard over winter.

.
 
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Finman said:
.my average yields are 80-90 kg and every summer some hive gets 150 kg.

Our yield seson is 1.5 months long.

But like I said, good yields come from pastures.

I had 45 years ago 40 kg average yields and 40 years ago 60 kg.

1994 I had 130 kg average yield.

The worst average yield during last 30 years is 37 kg.


Nowadays I keep 1-4 hives at same point. All hives are in cottage yard over winter.

.
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My cat is bigger and Blacker than your bigger black Cat.
 
I see Jenkins is sitting back enjoying the show.

Finman, if I lived in an area where 80 kg averages were possible, I would get an 80 kg average. The average here where I live is roughly 30 kg. I am doing a bit better than average.

I've always thought a beekeeper should do something to improve himself every year. I expanded the influence of my bees this past year by helping a new beekeeper get started with 11 colonies of my mite tolerant stock. I also worked with another beekeeper to help him get his second decent crop of honey from my stock. I read and studied past beekeeping books and journals in an effort to understand why Langstroth hive bodies are such a poor compromise. So what have you done to make yourself a better beekeeper? I also have goals for this year. What are your goals?


My goals:

Increase the number of beekeepers in the immediate area running mite tolerant bees from 4 to at least 10

Produce at least 2000 pounds of honey - I have huge local demand

Convert most of my production colonies to square deep 11 5/8 equipment

Produce enough queens to send a few to people who can trial them for mite tolerance traits
 
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