Bees selecting eggs for future queens?

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Poly Hive

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I have been told in no uncertain terms that the bees are now known to select the appropriate egg to raise virgins from and so no beekeeper can possibly know which larvae to select.

Anyone know whether there is research to back this assertion up please?

PH
 
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IT is fairytale.

The Queen lays into the cell cup. IT cannot choose "Royal family egg". I have read about that Royal Theory.

In emergency Queen cases all queens are reared from 3 days old larva. All worker larvae are fed with queen jelly during first 3 days. Bees do not have brains to handle this.

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With regard to the production of emergency queens from worker larvae there does seem to be some sort of positive selection going on as they don't raise queens from all larvae within the age range needed for conversion but pick a limited number often scattered across the comb. Maybe based on kinship relationship of the nurse bees to the larvae (same father?) or perhaps they pick those with the highest metabolism.
 
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Surely they select 8 larvae from 5000, but how....

If you cut a piece from comb, they like to start from cutting point
 
I can just see a group of super sisters conspiring to make one of theirs the next :laughing-smiley-004royal line
 
With regard to the production of emergency queens from worker larvae there does seem to be some sort of positive selection going on as they don't raise queens from all larvae within the age range needed for conversion but pick a limited number often scattered across the comb. Maybe based on kinship relationship of the nurse bees to the larvae (same father?) or perhaps they pick those with the highest metabolism.

is it the same mechansim as sub sister worker policing of non sub sister laying worker eggs, or has that recently been disproved?
 
With regard to the production of emergency queens from worker larvae there does seem to be some sort of positive selection going on as they don't raise queens from all larvae within the age range needed for conversion but pick a limited number often scattered across the comb. Maybe based on kinship relationship of the nurse bees to the larvae (same father?) or perhaps they pick those with the highest metabolism.

That's a helluva jump of logic ... could just as well be that they start a few 'at random', but don't actually 'select' those larva using any identifiable critera. Then, once they have 'the required number' (undefined - but probably has something to do with the level of pheromone emission from those cells), they stop starting any more. That would also explain the apparent 'selection'.
LJ
 
Not logic (hence the maybe and the perhaps) more a sort of hypothesis (the starting point of any future experimental design)
It could well be random as a few things in Biology do occur randomly (random segregation of chromosomes in meiosis ) but there have been a few millions years of evolution of honeybees so I would think more likely there will be some sort of mechanism involved rather than just occuring randomly.
 
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Bees will select a new home, forage, where to put honey, pollen, where to make a queen cell, so filling it with a particulate egg does not seem outrageous, one egg they won't select is a drone
 
I have been told in no uncertain terms that the bees are now known to select the appropriate egg to raise virgins from and so no beekeeper can possibly know which larvae to select.

Anyone know whether there is research to back this assertion up please?

PH

Someone said that to me as well... when talking about grafting.... seem to recall that there was a paper written on selection of larvae by the workers to bring on to queens and how beekeepers carrying out grafting were messing things up!

Yeghes da
 
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In emergency Queen cases all queens are reared from 3 days old larva. All worker larvae are fed with queen jelly during first 3 days. Bees do not have brains to handle this.

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Research doesn't seem to agree with Finman

see https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226937921
_Emergency_queen_cell_production_in_the_honey_bee_colony
Insectes Sociaux 31(3):221-237 · September 1984

Emergency queen cells were usually started over worker larvæ less than 2 days of age (64.7%), but cells were built over 3 (25.3%) and 4 (10.0%) day old larvæ.
 
Anyone know whether there is research to back this assertion up please?

PH

Yes it's the idea of royal lines. It's only been looked at in an emergency response, with A m carnica and A m capensis bees but the results (in these situations) do suggest that honeybee queens are not reared at random but are preferentially reared from rare "royal" subfamilies, which have extremely low frequencies in the colony's worker force but a high frequency in the queens reared.
As far as I'm aware this work has not been followed up in normal queen development such as swarming.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7610474_Rare_royal_families_in_honeybees_Apis_mellifera
I'd like to see more work on this as it has the potential to be quite important for anyone raising queens.
 
Not logic (hence the maybe and the perhaps) more a sort of hypothesis (the starting point of any future experimental design)
It could well be random as a few things in Biology do occur randomly (random segregation of chromosomes in meiosis ) but there have been a few millions years of evolution of honeybees so I would think more likely there will be some sort of mechanism involved rather than just occuring randomly.

Sure - but when erecting a hypothesis, one must always be alert to falling into the trap of the logical fallacy cum hoc ergo propter hoc - that is, confusing correlation with causation - which seems to occur frequently amongst beekeepers.
LJ
 
Research doesn't seem to agree with Finman

see https://www.researchgate.net/publication/226937921
_Emergency_queen_cell_production_in_the_honey_bee_colony
Insectes Sociaux 31(3):221-237 · September 1984

Emergency queen cells were usually started over worker larvæ less than 2 days of age (64.7%), but cells were built over 3 (25.3%) and 4 (10.0%) day old larvæ.

I have read those...... Started, but who is mated? That who emerges first, and it kills other cells.

It has bee researched.

And I have seen so much emergency queens in my life that I do not want to keep such bugs in my hives.

The queen is the basic of big yield, and science can say what ever. But emergency queens do not have site in my 3 brood system hives.

I see every year emergency queens. I buy then if I do not have better.

Greetings to the science.
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And I have time to change 10 larvae to 1 day old. Nowadays I change the larvae into swarming cells. Success rate in grafting is 100%.
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Research doesn't seem to agree with Finman

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Received 01 December 2011; accepted 05 March 2012
S u m m a r y
The research was conducted at the apiary of the Faculty of Agriculture, Zanjan University in Zanjan,
Iran. Queens were reared in 24 Apis mellifera meda honey bee rearing colonies.

The colonies were
assigned to 4 grafting larvae age groups; 1 day old larvae, 2 day old larvae, and 3 day old larvae, and
the last group reared emergency queen cells.

The groups were divided into the 2 feeding groups: fed
additionally and no fed. The effects of the age of the grafted larvae and the effects of supplemental
feeding on 9 morphological characteristics of queens were measured. The results showed that the
age of the larvae significantly affected the morphological characteristics of reared queens, and thus,
their quality.

Queens reared from 1 day old larvae were of the highest quality. These queens were
significantly heavier (158.83 mg) and had significantly larger spermatheca (0.99 mm3) than queens
reared from larvae 2 and 3 days old.

Queens from emergency queen cells were of lower quality than
queens reared from 1 day old larvae.

However, queens from emergency queen cells were of higher
quality than queens reared from 3 day old larvae.

The supplemental feeding significantly increased
most morphological characteristics of the reared queens. The different ages of the larvae did not
significantly affect the wing length nor did supplemental feeding affect the wing length.
 
is it the same mechansim as sub sister worker policing of non sub sister laying worker eggs, or has that recently been disproved?

This is my understanding of worker policing...

Egg-laying workers and worker policing in a queen-right colony

All worker bees have rudimentary ovaries whose fuller development is inhibited by the presence of queen pheromone and brood pheromones within the nest [1]. Nonetheless, a dissection study revealed that about 4% workers in a queen-right colony have potentially functional ovaries [2]. These bees are recognisable to their sisters who tend to attack them by mandibulation [3]. It has been calculated that perhaps 0.01% workers in a queen-right colony actually lay unfertilised eggs but this can represent up to 7% all drone eggs laid [4]. Within 8 hours, the vast majority of worker-laid eggs are removed by other workers in a behaviour known as “worker policing” [5]. Therefore, hardly any worker-laid eggs successfully hatch into larvae and, as only about 20% these reach pupation, it has been calculated that only about 1 in 1,000 drones reaching sexual maturity in a queen-right colony are derived from worker bee eggs [6].

(Please see attachment, derived from reference 5)

It was believed that queen bees marked their eggs with a pheromone that allowed workers to discriminate between queen-laid and worker-laid eggs, thereby allowing workers to cannibalise the latter [7]. Mathematically, this is in the genetic interests of worker bees [8, 9] because, for any worker, about 25% their genome will be found in any queen-laid drone egg but just 12.5% her genome will be found in any egg laid by a half-sister. Whilst about 37.5% her genome will be found in an egg laid by a super-sister, the probability is that any such egg will be vastly outnumbered by half-sister eggs. If workers are able to discriminate the maternity of eggs to this level of accuracy and the queen was well mated, there will be about 15 workers for whom the destruction of any worker-laid egg is in their genetic interests for every one worker who is best served by its conservation. However, there is no convincing evidence that queens mark their eggs or that workers can distinguish them from worker-laid eggs [10]. In fact, it looks highly probable that straightforward “hygienic behaviour” explains the high removal rate of worker-laid eggs compared to queen-laid eggs [10]. Hygienic behaviour is the rapid removal of diseased or dead brood from the nest by workers, either through cannibalisation or physical elimination. This is done to limit pathogen spread and prevent the outbreak of serious infection within the colony [11, 12, 13] Worker-laid eggs are simply not as viable as queen-laid eggs: they are derived from less well-nourished mothers with less developed ovaries. Furthermore, they are often positioned poorly in the cell [14] which might result in damage. It has also been suggested that worker-laid eggs might be more prone to dehydration [15].

The proportion of laying workers in a colony increases during periods of queenlessness. Furthermore, when a colony has developed swarm cells in preparation for swarming, the ovaries in some workers become more developed. It is estimated that 20-70% worker bees in a swarm are anatomical laying workers. Swarms represent a time of particular danger for queen bees. It can be seen how this strategy of worker ovary development during swarming provides the colony with a rather meagre contingency plan... in the event of the new the colony being/becoming hopelessly queenless, the otherwise doomed colony has one last chance to pass on genetic material to a subsequent generation through the production of physically inferior drones.

References

[1] Slessor K, Foster L, Winston M. Royal flavours: Honey bee queen pheromones. In: Vander Meer R, Breed M, Winston M, Espelie K, editors. Pheromone Communication in Social Insects. Westview, Boulder, CO; 1988. p. 331–344.
[2] Jay S. Factors influencing ovary development in worker honeybees under natural conditions. Can J Zool. 1968;46:345–347.
[3] Visscher P, Dukas R. Honey bees recognise development of nestmates’ ovaries. Anim Behav. 1995;49:542–544.
[4] Visscher P. Reproductive conflict in honey bees: A stalemate of worker egg-laying and policing. Behav Ecol Sociobiol. 1996;39:237–244.
[5] Ratnieks F, Visscher P. Worker policing in the honeybee. Nature (London). 1989;342:796–797.
[6] Visscher P. A quantitative study of worker reproduction in honey bee colonies. Behavioral Ecology and Sociobiology. 1989;25:247–254.
[7] Ratnieks F. Evidence for a queen-produced egg-marking pheromone and its use in worker policing in the honey bee. J Apic Res. 1995;34:31–37.
[8] Woyciechowski M, Lomnicki A. Multiple mating of queens and the sterility of workers among eusocial hymenoptera. J Theor Biol 128, 317–327. 1987;128:317–327.
[9] Ratnieks F. Reproductive harmony via mutual policing by workers in eusocial Hymenoptera. American Naturalist. 1988;132:217–236.
[10] Pirk C, Neumann P, Hepburn R, Moritz J RFA amd Tautz. Egg viability and worker policing in honey bees. PNAS. 2004;101(23):8649–8651.
[11] Woodrow A, Holst E. The mechanism of colony resistance to American foulbrood . J Econ Entomol. 1942;35:327–330.
[12] Spivak M, Gilliam M. Hygienic behaviour of honey bees and its application for control of brood diseases and varroa Part I. Hygienic behaviour and resistance to American foulbrood. Bee World. 1988;79(3):124–134.
[13] Spivak M, Gilliam M. Hygienic behaviour of honey bees and its application for control of brood diseases and varroa Part II. Studies on hygienic behaviour since the Rothenbuhler era. Bee World. 1998;79(4):169–186.
[14] Sakagami S. The False-Queen: Fourth Adjustive Response in Dequeened Honeybee Colonies. Behaviour. 1958;13:280–296.
[15] Velthuis AD HHW, Imperatriz-Fonseca V, Duchateau M. Worker bees and the fate of their eggs. Proc Exp Appl Entomol NEV. 2002;13:97–102.
 

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I was sent a paper tonight via FB. The Darwin cure for apiculture?

The author is Tom Seely and the relevant bit is this:

Commercial breeders select against swarming, defensive behavior,
and propolis usage, thereby probably compromising colony defense
and social immunity (Meunier, 2015). Indeed, in Africa, where the
majority of honeybee colonies are not kept by man and where beekeepers
are mostly side users not interfering with natural swarming,
queen rearing etc., the virtually nonbred local subspecies have
less desirable beekeeping traits, but a superior health compared to
European ones (Pirk, Strauss, Yusuf, Démares, & Human, 2016). This
supports the notion of a trade-off scenario between commercially
desired traits and bee health. In particular, queen failure is one of the
foremost mentioned causes of honeybee losses (vanEngelsdorp et al.,
2011; Pettis, Rice, Joselow, vanEngelsdorp, & Chaimanee, 2016) and
may also be linked to breeding, because queen breeders usually ignore
choices made by colonies and choose larvae based on right age
alone. The natural reproductive cycle of a colony, incl. hormonal and
nutritional aspects, determines timing and development of drones and
new queens and often lays outside of the time window for commercial
queen rearing. Moreover, during emergency queen rearing, the choice
of the bees is not at random; instead, subfamilies, which are rare in the
work force, are significantly more likely to end up as queens (Moritz
et al., 2005). As such royal subfamilies are rare, human choice of larvae
based on appropriate age alone is likely to miss those and instead
offers only suboptimal choices for the bees. Moreover, breeding for V.
destructor-resistance over >20 years has still not resulted in survival of
untreated colonies, but natural selection has delivered multiple times
(Locke, 2016; Rosenkranz et al., 2010), thereby suggesting that breeders
should choose traits favored by natural selection. This suggests
fundamental conceptual flaws in both commercial honeybee queen
rearing and breeding. As the fitness of a honeybee colony clearly is
the number of surviving swarms as well as the number of successfully
mating drones (all other traits are only tokens of fitness), the selection
by beekeepers for low swarming tendency of colonies and removal of
drone brood, mainly to combat mites V. destructor, remain probably
the key factors in limiting natural selection.

However that does not support the egg thinking.

PH
 

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