Bees selecting eggs for future queens?

[masterBK]

Sure - but when erecting a hypothesis, one must always be alert to falling into the trap of the logical fallacy cum hoc ergo propter hoc - that is, confusing correlation with causation - which seems to occur frequently amongst beekeepers.
LJ

which is why (as I'm sure you know) the "null hypothesis" is so important and why a strong statistical test and a good sized data set is needed to test it.

 

[Finman]

-We live strange times.
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[Little John]

... they don't raise queens from all larvae within the age range needed for conversion but pick a limited number often scattered across the comb.

I've been mulling over this issue, overnight. If you consider the experiments of Doc Miller etc - when trimming back the comb to get to where suitably-aged larvae are housed, in practice bees then select as many as they can physically fit alongside that cut edge for q/c development.

Admittedly, that's an artificial situation - but it does seem to suggest that physical location matters - i.e. an ease of drawing-out those cells. Perhaps it's the exact opposite observation which has more merit - that in the above scenario, they don't draw queen cells anywhere else on that artifically-cut comb.

Another example perhaps worth considering in this context is the Hopkins method, where the bees will draw as many viable (undefined) q/cells as they are able from the under-surface of a comb held flat. But - when using the Mel Disselkoen modification to the Hopkins method, where a small number of cells - chosen randomly by the beekeeper - are protected, with the remainder being killed-off by applying a powder of some sort, then all of those protected cells are usually successfully drawn-out into queen cells.
If there was some kind of genetic-based selection taking place, then surely one would expect only a percentage of those protected cells to be developed ?
But in practice, they draw-out as many as they are able, up to some kind of limiting number.
LJ

 

[mbc]

A notable queen breeder from this area, Robert Jones, has a system of queen rearing whereby a section of comb with correct age larva is placed horizontally over queenless bees to allow them to choose which larva to develop. Seems to work for him but I always considered it wasteful of resources.

 

[For want of a better word]

A notable queen breeder from this area, Robert Jones, has a system of queen rearing whereby a section of comb with correct age larva is placed horizontally over queenless bees to allow them to choose which larva to develop. Seems to work for him but I always considered it wasteful of resources.

Robert demonstrated this slight modification of the Hopkins method to us a couple of years back... combined with the method of placing a colony into swarm followed by superceedure mode as described by David Woodward in "Queen Bees... Biology, Rearing and breeding ... works really well even in a bad year for queen raising and with "difficult" bees.

Bees would appear to select the correct larvae for queens.

( some of our most prolific honey producers tend to not swarm... but superceed.... which is possibly why they are good honey producers!)

Yeghes da

 

[masterBK]

Why does a nurse bee initially recognise a worker larvae (within a limited age range) as suitable to feed up as a queen larvae? The answer seems to be the vertical orientation of the cell which is why Hopkins and the Alley method works not forgetting grafting, cell punching, cupkit and jenter methods. My query is why in the emergency situation are certain larvae chosen and not others of the same age as these cells are not in the vertical state. Swarm cells are most likely built on outer regions of comb particularly the bottom area as there is less Q footprint pheromone there (studies have shown Q walks less in these regions and her footprint pheromone inhibits the building of swarm Q cells)

 

[Finman]

.
In my hives, when I normally has 2 boxes full of brood, the queen cells are mostly at bottom of the upper frames. Much are against the side bars. Lots of queen cells are often in the super frames.
I do not even inspect the lower brood box.


I change the larvae of queen cells in the swarming hive. It is not big job to do that. Reared queen cells are mostly in different frames. When I make the mating nucs, I put to each nuc that frame with a queen cell. Some queen cells I put into cage. Then nucs to the another yard.
That ensures that there are no introducing losses and the colony accepts all crafted larvae.
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Are they royal line or not, it is not in my interest.

The whole queen process is a big job. And it has its cost, because one hive does not produce honey.
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