Beekeeping ethics

[SDM]

Last thing any landowner needs is hassle from beekeepers he is giving free access to his land .

The last thing Beekeepers need is being dumped on by other Beekeepers.

 

[deemann1]

It's bad form and completely ignorant

 

[Kenson]

As I read the OP, my understanding is that the Farmer/Owner has died, as a result of this stewardship of the land has passed to a lady (his wife?), and it is the new proprietor who has given permission to the new Beekeeper.

The new Beekeeper may be a friend of the new farmer, or just a Beek who in conversation with the newly bereaved new farmer saw an opportunity to place some hives. The new Beek may be totally unaware that the current hives are yours, it may not have been discussed, the new farmer may have left the new beekeeper with the impression that the existing hives were her husbands?

What I mean is, it could all be totally innocent, and no one can determine the truth of the situation without discussion. Given that you are being thoroughly good and not going to discus it with the newly bereaved lady, you only have one option:

Talk to the new Beek openly and honestly, get their point of view and see how this has happened.

You could get any response from a "Oh my gosh I didn't know" to "This is bee war and mine will out forage yours". But it will probably be somewhere in between. But all the beekeepers I have met turn out to be on my side (I am much nicer when you meet me than when I write). So you have nothing to lose from an open honest conversation, but much to gain, even if it is only the knowledge that you are dealing with a dick head

Also, if you are also a member of the local BKA maybe talk to the seniors there and canvas their view. I for one would be interested to know if your BKA can be of assistance

K

 

[Anduril]

The new Beekeeper may be a friend of the new farmer, or just a Beek who in conversation with the newly bereaved new farmer saw an opportunity to place some hives. The new Beek may be totally unaware that the current hives are yours, it may not have been discussed, the new farmer may have left the new beekeeper with the impression that the existing hives were her husbands?

What I mean is, it could all be totally innocent, and no one can determine the truth of the situation without discussion. Given that you are being thoroughly good and not going to discus it with the newly bereaved lady, you only have one option:

The permission was given by the farm manager. If I have read it correctly the other beekeeper trains new beekeepers, this may mean it could be a training apiary. The OP needs to speak to the farm manager, the widow and the other beekeeper. Diplomacy is key. I know a beekeeper who shares with another.

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

I share an apiary with the person who was my mentor many years ago, we use the site to breed what he feels are black bees, this is against my own policy of breed for production and we argue quite often but always reach a middle ground. We have around 130 hives between us and neither could run that many on our own which means that we compromise with each other all the time which ensures harmonious bee keeping. Life is to short to argue and bear a grudge, talk to the other person and move on.

 

[Into the lions den]

you obviously haven't bothered reading the OP properly.
This man is putting his twelve hives in the same field not just on the same farm.
Or is it just that we are working to a different moral compass.

I did read it........but there is not indication of field size...and 'in the same field' does NOT mean 'in the same apiary'.

Some of the individual fields I go to are so large that they NEED more than one group. One last year was 180Ha in ONE block. More than 1Km from side to side. We had FOUR groups on one field and one group reduced in size because there was a small beekeeper just across the road.

This is NOT a clear issue. However it remains that the new beek does seem to have a high opinion of themselves and that arrogant, even conceited, attitude would get right up MY nose too. But...at the end of the day its the farmers choice.

FWIW....this other 3 hive guy insisted our bees had given his disease and robbed his hives out...allegation made 3 days before our bees were even there, still being 50 miles away. Only the stack of pallets had been placed. In the week since the pallets were put there it was stated we had given him AFB, SHB, and our bees had robbed out his hives (and his bees had turned vicious too).......and these stories are commonplace.

 

[maddydog]

Entirely up to the farmer/land owner.

 

[Angularity]

Sorry folks but its the farmer/landowners perogative to choose who they want on their land.

Have won out in such situations, and almost as often lost out. You just have to suck it up, even though the feeling is rough.

The farmer has a RIGHT to adequate pollination. If your bees are not enough you either have to tolerate other bees coming in to address the shortfall or agree with him to increase your hive numbers to meet his needs. If you dont then you can have no complaint. You can become a problem because pollination safeguards or increases the farmers returns, and if a little beekeeper goes all territorial on him he can be losing money, sometimes significant money, to deal with your fears.

We have heard every reason under the sun given that we should not go into certain areas. Spreading disease (statistically you are more likely to catch it!) genetic pollution of a unique local type not found anywhere else in the world (99% twaddle), that we stole the beeks honey in previous years (never knew of their presence till farmer told us), that we are known poachers, that we went to jail for stealing implements, that we are coming in with mud from diseased farms, that our bees raid and kill all their colonies, you name it, we've heard it. One farmer was even physically threatened over it.

Bottom line...if you have 6 hives and he/she has 50 hectares of OSR and wants it effectively pollinated you need to provide that, or accept others part covering it. If you do not then the farmer might come to see the problem as YOU.

Not sure that's true. He has a duty to his business to make sure his crops are adequately pollinated.

 

[Michael Palmer]

FWIW....this other 3 hive guy insisted our bees had given his disease and robbed his hives out...allegation made 3 days before our bees were even there, still being 50 miles away. Only the stack of pallets had been placed. In the week since the pallets were put there it was stated we had given him AFB, SHB, and our bees had robbed out his hives (and his bees had turned vicious too).......and these stories are commonplace.

Deja Vu. Reminds me of the guy that said I killed his bees by locating my nuc apiary near his 10 hives. Claimed the bees didn't build up all summer, and got robbed out by my bees in the autumn. I never moved the nucs into the apiary until July. The following the spring they looked terrible. Microscopic inspection showed a huge nosema infection. When he accused me again, I informed him that his bees had killed my bees. Sickly packages from Georgia that crashed from nosema, and my bees did rob them out. Killed half my nucs.

 

[Finman]

.
Quite many beekeepers bark and laugh on me, when I move my hives to untouched pastures. I wonder what is that ethic. To get big yields is not ethic.

I bet that beekeepers have nothing ethics. Just lips according situation.

 

[oxnatbees]

Yes, it does seem like very bad manners.

I think before acting you need more information. For example:
- Is this beek related to the farmer?
- Where do they live? Maybe they have moved right next to the field and it seemed logical to them.
- Have they just moved from a city? You don't tend to take others' hive locations into account if you have no options.
- What did they tell the farm manager? Maybe they implied the farmer would get unfeasibly more yield.
- Where else do they have hives - do they make a habit of this? Your BKA may know.
- What kind of bees do they have? Are they different to your strain? If they have, say, Italian and you have Buckfast, you could both suffer aggressive crosses in a year. Mention this to them and it may incentivise them to remove them (or you could mention it to the farm operator).

I suspect anyone with 12 hives has been at this a few years and knows full well that this behaviour is really bad form, the risks of disease transmission etc. And it is compounded by the fact that it was another beek, not them, who told you. I would go so far as to suggest it would be an idea to have a really good look at their hives to see if there are, say, owners' marks that have been obscured, because this kind of unscrupulous behaviour makes me think they have a cavalier attitude to others' property.

Also you may want to watch your own hives very carefully for signs of tampering, poisoning etc as has been reported in New Zealand where competition for manuka forage has created ungentlemanly competition.

 

[Anduril]

I have a beekeeper not far from me and he keeps carnies, (in the next field) I requeened most of the swarms I collected last year with my best performing hive as they had a bad temperament. All my hives now are quiet on the comb. I have no issue with what anyone keeps.

 

[Into the lions den]

Not sure that's true. He has a duty to his business to make sure his crops are adequately pollinated.

We are not in disagreement.......that's essentially what I said. The more enlightened farmers know the value of an adequate number of pollinators. They also welcome them in and some even sow cover crops and margins with mixes to suit them.

Thinking you can have a farm all to yourself with just few hives is asking the farmer to do without the pollination of other bees and can hit him in yield.

In our publicity material we make it clear we are NOT in the business of ousting other beekeepers and have it down in black and white, but if the farm needs more pollination we will come, but also take into account the number of bees present in the area already (we specifically ask about that).

You can still get problems however, as the smaller beekeepers have often gone through the gamekeeper or head gardener or some other channel and the farm manager might not even know. Happens.

 

[mbc]

I agree with those who think it's irritating when it happens but you just have to take it on the chin, these things dont get forgotten easily though.

 

[mbc]

And there's no mention of how many colonies the op gas there, that has a bearing.

 

[Anduril]

And there's no mention of how many colonies the op gas there, that has a bearing.

From his user data he has 10

 

[pargyle]

I think you are talking to the wall friends ... he's not been back since his original post. For what it's worth .. I'm a member of Fareham and District Association and asking around it does not appear to be any of our members 'encroaching' .. the OP (from earlier posts) appears to have been a member at some time and I've PM'd him asking if he needed to establish who the 'other beek' is then I'd make enquiries .. no reply so far.

I know all the people in FDBKA who 'train' people and it appears to be none of them. Wickham does form a confluence for Meon Valley Assoiation and Portsmouth Beekeepers as well as Fareham & District so it could be someone (or anyone) for that matter either from another assoociation - or possibly not even in one !

Why the OP chose to post here rather than doing the obvious thing of talking to all those concerned is beyond me ... maligning a small and generally ethical association in the process. Phil

PS: Just dropped in .. no intention of hanging about I'm afraid.

 

[mickbees23]

Maybe he is the beekeeper thinking of putting his colonies onto land already occupied by another keeper and wanted to judge the response..? Hmmmm.

 

[For want of a better word]

Tragey of the Commons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Now how would you react when a fool with no experience of bees or beekeeping rocks up with 35+ colonies of unsuitable imported bees, and dumps them right in the middle of a voluntary reserve dedicated to the protection of the Native dark bee?......

Not Salisbury common... strewth!!

 

[B+.]

Tragey of the Commons

Now how would you react when a fool with no experience of bees or beekeeping rocks up with 35+ colonies of unsuitable imported bees, and dumps them right in the middle of a voluntary reserve dedicated to the protection of the Native dark bee?......

Not Salisbury common... strewth!!

There are a number of issues with your statement, but, I will pick out only three:
1. "Tragedy of the commons" implies that there is an over-riding public good that is being subverted. You haven't indicated what that "common good" is. If it is only a "good" from your perspective, then, it cannot be a "tragedy of the commons".
2. On what basis are they "unsuitable"? Is it because they were imported? Surely, we all have a right to choose what bee we keep?
3. A "voluntary reserve" has no standing at all. I remember highlighting when you first mentioned this "reserve" that it was woefully inadequate. I could say that my back-garden is a "reserve" but I doubt anyone would agree with me. Your "reserve" seems to have the same status.