Bee stuff in Thailand or Cambodia

[beeboybee]

Just in case I find myself with nothing to while visiting Thailand and Cambodia, does anyone have any experience with visiting local honey farms or interesting small scale community beekeeping projects? We are spending two weeks in Thailand then two in Cambodia and just totally going with the flow after two nights in Bangkok we don't have anything booked and looking for some real adventure.

I promise to bring back some better weather


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[MuswellMetro]

Just in case I find myself with nothing to while visiting Thailand and Cambodia, does anyone have any experience with visiting local honey farms or interesting small scale community beekeeping projects? We are spending two weeks in Thailand then two in Cambodia and just totally going with the flow after two nights in Bangkok we don't have anything booked and looking for some real adventure.

I promise to bring back some better weather


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i spent 5 weeks in sri lanka and got to see hives just by asking the hotel/rest houses owners, manged about 5 visits, and one pre arranged from england, always thanked with equivilent of £1 in rupees (200), so about a £5 per visit by the time you thanked each partyin the chain. Everyone seems to know someone who would know...whatever you ask, I assume thailand and cambodia works in a similar way

 

[adrian wilford]

just ask amazing where you get

 

[enrico]

I spent a couple of years in Thailand, make sure you go the chakutak weekend market which is held on the outskirts of Bangkok. It sells everything including sticks with small hives wrapped round them filled with honey. I think they must push the sticks onto a wild hive, when the bees have attached wax to it and filled it with honey they merely pull the stick out again and sell it as you see it! If you can get an interpreter I am sure they will show you how it is done. The market is amazing and mainly for thai's. it sells everything, and I mean everything!!! Hope you're not squeamish! Can't comment on Cambodia, the last time I crossed that border the Vietnam war was in full swing!
E

 

[Hombre]

Beboybee, MM will send you the address for his 200 rupees bung . . .

 

[Chiangmai member]

I spent a couple of years in Thailand, make sure you go the chakutak weekend market which is held on the outskirts of Bangkok. It sells everything including sticks with small hives wrapped round them filled with honey. I think they must push the sticks onto a wild hive, when the bees have attached wax to it and filled it with honey they merely pull the stick out again and sell it as you see it! If you can get an interpreter I am sure they will show you how it is done. The market is amazing and mainly for thai's. it sells everything, and I mean everything!!! Hope you're not squeamish! Can't comment on Cambodia, the last time I crossed that border the Vietnam war was in full swing!
E

The 'sticks with small hives' that Enrico found at Chatuchak market were probably comb from Dwarf Honey Bee, Apis florea colonies, which are collected from the wild. Check them out on wikipedia. Chatuchak market still has a lot of things collected from the wild. Unfortunately some of them are on the IUCN red list.

 

[enrico]

Yo! Chiangmai member, do you keep bees out there? If so what and how? I was out there in the early seventies on vso, been back several times. Thanks for the update on the bee sticks, I never thought that they may be of 'iffy' origin, sorry!
E

 

[Chiangmai member]

Yo! Chiangmai member, do you keep bees out there? If so what and how? I was out there in the early seventies on vso, been back several times. Thanks for the update on the bee sticks, I never thought that they may be of 'iffy' origin, sorry!
E

There are plenty of people keeping A. mellifera up here in Chiang mai. Its drier and cooler than most other parts of Thailand, which seems to suit the bees, We have been keeping bees for about 3 years and at present, we have 5 colonies in Chiangmai town and 5 colonies about 40 km to the north on our farm in Mae Deng There are quite a few large bee farms up here. A friend of ours in Chiang Dao has more than 300 colonies. The honey flow here is Feb- April when the Lum Yai trees flower. Hornets (Vespa veluntina, and V. tropica are problems in wet weather. The bees fly all year but we have to feed them sugar regularly through the wet season as there is little nectar around. I understand that Varroa originated from this part of the world but although we see some occasionally, they do not seem to cause noticeable losses. We never bother treating for it. Another interesting thing is that swarming is quite uncommon here. Have not had a colony swarm in three years.

Its not the 'bee sticks' at Chatuchak that are iffy, it's the wildlife such as pangolins and rainforest birds, sold under the counter there, that are the problem.

 

[BeeJayBee]

There are plenty of people keeping A. mellifera up here in Chiang mai. Its drier and cooler than most other parts of Thailand, which seems to suit the bees, We have been keeping bees for about 3 years and at present, we have 5 colonies in Chiangmai town and 5 colonies about 40 km to the north on our farm in Mae Deng [.....] I understand that Varroa originated from this part of the world but although we see some occasionally, they do not seem to cause noticeable losses. We never bother treating for it.

Is it that your local bees know how to deal with varroa, or perhaps something in your hive management that makes the mites less of a problem for AMM? Or have I misunderstood? (Quite easy for me to do)

 

[beeboybee]

Quick update.... Made contact with someone in Siam reap, so after some looking around the temples hopefully off to see a local bee farmer.
Have my camera fully charged so will try and post some pictures....



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[Chiangmai member]

Is it that your local bees know how to deal with varroa, or perhaps something in your hive management that makes the mites less of a problem for AMM? Or have I misunderstood? (Quite easy for me to do)

That's a good question Beejoyful. A.Mellifera was introduced to Thailand about 50 years ago, long enough perhaps, for there to have been some selection pressure for resistance to varroa. Or it could be that the lack of a real winter here means the bees are not couped up for months on end which might favour mite populations. Any one else have any ideas on this?

 

[Chiangmai member]

Quick update.... Made contact with someone in Siam reap, so after some looking around the temples hopefully off to see a local bee farmer.
Have my camera fully charged so will try and post some pictures....



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Think you might find the farmers in Siem Reap are keeping Apis cerena rather than mellifera. This species is quite docile, (hence the name) and has behaviours that reduce hornet predation. However, they tend to abscond and honey yields are much lower than with mellifera. Enjoy the temples.

 

[Easy Beesy]

Hope you do find some bees & beekeepers - but whatever, have a great time! Bring back more sun and less monsoon please.

 

[PBee]

That's a good question Beejoyful. A.Mellifera was introduced to Thailand about 50 years ago, long enough perhaps, for there to have been some selection pressure for resistance to varroa. Or it could be that the lack of a real winter here means the bees are not couped up for months on end which might favour mite populations. Any one else have any ideas on this?

Whether through selection pressure or source of original stock they apparently have the same hygienic traits as the Russian (Primorsky?) Am. http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/publications/publications.htm?SEQ_NO_115=163616

 

[Chiangmai member]

Thanks for the interesting link PBee!

 

[BeeJayBee]

Whether through selection pressure or source of original stock they apparently have the same hygienic traits [etc]

Ron Hoskins http://www.swindonhoneybeeconservation.org.uk/About Us.html isn't too sure that killing larvae with liquid nitrogen, and then watching to see if (and how quickly) they're removed, gives a clear indication of 'hygienic traits'. He thinks that bees that groom each other, and damage and kill varroa are being 'hygienic'.

But that's an aside.

There's more interesting stuff about Primorsky bees here http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs.htm?docid=2744&page=6

A.Mellifera was introduced to Thailand about 50 years ago, long enough perhaps, for there to have been some selection pressure for resistance to varroa. Or it could be that the lack of a real winter here means the bees are not couped up for months on end which might favour mite populations. Any one else have any ideas on this?

Have you any idea what happened to the first AMM taken to Thailand? Did a lot of them die off?

We're advised that a brood break is a good thing, and a good time to treat for varroa because all the mites will be on the bees. If there isn't a brood break you'd think the mite population would probably keep rising. Have you any idea what your bees do to the mites to keep the populations below crisis level?

Edit:
More about selecting varroa-fighting strains and Primorsky on Scientific American http://scientificbeekeeping.com/choosing-your-troops-breeding-mite-fighting-bees/

 

[PBee]

Ron Hoskins http://www.swindonhoneybeeconservation.org.uk/About Us.html isn't too sure that killing larvae with liquid nitrogen, and then watching to see if (and how quickly) they're removed, gives a clear indication of 'hygienic traits'. He thinks that bees that groom each other, and damage and kill varroa are being 'hygienic'.

But that's an aside.

There's more interesting stuff about Primorsky bees here http://www.ars.usda.gov/services/docs.htm?docid=2744&page=6



Have you any idea what happened to the first AMM taken to Thailand? Did a lot of them die off?

We're advised that a brood break is a good thing, and a good time to treat for varroa because all the mites will be on the bees. If there isn't a brood break you'd think the mite population would probably keep rising. Have you any idea what your bees do to the mites to keep the populations below crisis level?

Edit:
More about selecting varroa-fighting strains and Primorsky on Scientific American http://scientificbeekeeping.com/choosing-your-troops-breeding-mite-fighting-bees/

The other possible factor is the haplotype of the varroa in Thailand which seems to be, in the majority of cases, the less pathogenic to Am of the two types.

Anderson and Trueman (2000) identified two haplotypes of V. destructor that infest A. cerana in Asia and have become pests of A. mellifera worldwide. The Korea haplotype is the common one, being a parasite of A. cerana in Korea and now a pest of A. mellifera in Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia, North America and South America. The Japan/Thailand haplotype is less common, being a parasite of A. cerana in Japan and Thailand and also a pest of A. mellifera in Japan, Thailand and the Americas. The Korea haplotype of V. destructor appears more pathogenic to A. mellifera than the Japan/Thailand type (Anderson & Trueman 2000).http://www.nhm.ac.uk/hosted-sites/acarology/saas/saasp/pdf10/saasp05b.pdf

There are exceptions though and geographical location also seems to be a factor.

I would have to .... cough..... agree with Randy Oliver on the incorporation of resistant stock to a breeding program and there is currently a least one (probably lots of) new Buckfast with a Primorsky line incorporated.

Came across a paper describing the lineage of Am in Thailand. It dosen't seem to be uniform in source or resistance which would explain references to use of varroacides in other papers.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Interesting.

There's a lot more on the US site, if you check this page http://scientificbeekeeping.com/varroa-management/varroa-ipm-strategies/ and maybe this one too http://scientificbeekeeping.com/varroa-management/ Lots of reading, and further links

More stuff about Primorsky here "Varroa resistance breeding in Lunden Apiaries" http://www.saunalahti.fi/lunden/varroakertomus.htm

 

[beeboybee]

We survived Leach swamps and wild tarantulas, but did get to see the giant honey bee with a local Rafter Beekeeper.
Amazing day and as soon as I can get some photos off the camera I promise to post them.




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[jenkinsbrynmair]

New member from Cambodia on this forum now - worth getting in touch I think

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=21794

And here's their website

http://www.beesunlimited.com/Home.html