Bee lore and customs

[kazmcc]

I seemed to remember it had something to do with industry, but I didn't want to state that just in case I was wrong. I have the worst memory in the world, not helped by medication ( or should I say not helped by forgetting to take medication )

 

[Milfoil]

Great stuff, thanks for all the info.

Has anybody ever heard of 'tanging'? or a Tanging Coit/Quoit? I've read about this, something to do with bees but have no idea what it really entailed.

 

[nelletap]

My great grandmother was a powerful lady and - hardworking and a beekeeper. She'd been in service so she married on Christmas day which was the only day she was allowed off. Eventually she and my great grandfather set up their own butchers business and they also had an allotment (paid £3 a year for it) and she kept bees. My great grandfather liked going to auctions and having a little flutter so one day the bailiffs came to take away her red chaise longue so she took over the purse strings. They divided up all their money so all their children had a one portion share and all grandchildren had half as much because they hated paying tax and they duly lived more than 7 years so there were no death duties. When my grandmother died my mother was very distressed and I remember her rolling pastry with force to get rid of her angst and she was at least as distressed because as she said 'I just don't know who will tell the bees'. So this particular custom was certainly evident as late as 1958 where I lived:
"Where bees were kept, it was customary to inform them of any death in the family. If this was not done the bees would die or fly away. The owner's heir, or sometimes his widow, went to the hives, knocked three times upon each one with an iron door-key, and told the bees within that their master had gone. If any other member of the household had died, the news was conveyed by the head of the family. Black crepe was tied to the hives to show that their inmates were in mourning...".
Tricia

 

[psafloyd]

Yes, I did, but I'm a rubbish searcher lol. Couldn't find anything that explained it outright. All I found was references to bees in documents etc. I might have another crack at it

Now I've been reminded lol

It's all about industry. A demonstration to all who gaze upon the city that it was built by hard work and not the landed gentry, like most northern towns.

After all, the so called north/south divide is surely more based upon the enmity felt by the self-made middle classes towards the decadent, corrupt and ofncourse, in power, landed classes; the robber barons of the present day (18th century).

 

[Chris B]

Slightly off on a tangent, there has always been a strong connection between honey and marriage. "Honeymoon" was originally the month after the wedding when the couple would drink mead - believed to enhance fertility. This custom crops up in many cultures in one form or another.

 

[Milfoil]

Yes, there seem to be a lot of honey associations with marriage. A spoonfull of honey given to the bride (by her mother in law) as she enters her new home which was given in the hope that is added to her fertility and hopefully gave her a 'sweet tongue' instead of being a nag.

 

[Flatters]

If you look at the hologram on a current £10 note one of the images is of Britannia and to her left is a bee hive and bees. This is an image from older £10 notes when the image was printed. Bees represent industry and thier stores represent wealth.

How did I know this? Last week at a skep making course I was on a retired GP from Ormskirk who is also an entomologist, collects bank notes with insect images on and he came along and showed us about 50 different notes from around the world with bees and hives. Again throughout the world bees represent industry.

 

[Skyhook]

I seemed to remember it had something to do with industry, but I didn't want to state that just in case I was wrong. I have the worst memory in the world, not helped by medication ( or should I say not helped by forgetting to take medication )

Sounds like a vicious circle!

 

[Cazza]

Great stuff, thanks for all the info.

Has anybody ever heard of 'tanging'? or a Tanging Coit/Quoit? I've read about this, something to do with bees but have no idea what it really entailed.

If you ever get the chance to visit Erdigg, near Wrexham, (National Trust property) there is a fascinating collection of servants photos and a descriptive poem about each servant. In one picture is the beekeeper who was responsible for tanging the bees. This involved banging pots and pans loudly I think to drive a swarm? ( He was also stone deaf!)
Cazza

 

[kazmcc]

Sounds like a vicious circle!

You have no idea

*sigh*

 

[kazmcc]

It's all about industry. A demonstration to all who gaze upon the city that it was built by hard work and not the landed gentry, like most northern towns.

After all, the so called north/south divide is surely more based upon the enmity felt by the self-made middle classes towards the decadent, corrupt and ofncourse, in power, landed classes; the robber barons of the present day (18th century).

Thank you. Now you say it I remember. Stupid memory

 

[DanBee]

I know my city, Manchester, has a long history with bees. They are on the coat of arms, inlaid in the wood in the town hall, and the mosaic flooring. All the bollards in Manchester have the emblem of a bee on them too. I tried to find out why, but then life got in the way lol

Like this?

 

[DanBee]

"Where bees were kept, it was customary to inform them of any death in the family. If this was not done the bees would die or fly away. The owner's heir, or sometimes his widow, went to the hives, knocked three times upon each one with an iron door-key, and told the bees within that their master had gone. If any other member of the household had died, the news was conveyed by the head of the family. Black crepe was tied to the hives to show that their inmates were in mourning...".

With respect, how much relates to observed behaviour and how much is fanciful bollocks? What is the significance of the iron key, as opposed to, say, a stone? Why three times? Why would the bees die or abscond because the beekeeper had changed? If the bees were in mourning - or even noticed the change of beekeeper - wouldn't they make their own gesture, negating the need to tie ribbon to the hive?

Entertaining tradition, perhaps, but nothing more than that?

 

[Foxylad]

There was an american beekeeping podcast, which stated "You should approach the hive with your arms out as that is what you will be putting into the hive and let them know your intent"

Has anyone tried this? Can you please make a video, i'm up for a laugh.
Bonkers!!

 

[kazmcc]

Like this?

Exactly like that! I will take a picture of the bollards in our park, they have one bee on each side, the exact same bees as on here, imagewise

 

[For want of a better word]

Never give honey to babies... or the bad fairy will take them away.... or so my Grandmother used to say (B1900)


Supposedly some element of truth in that old adage, depends if ( as indeed I do) you believe in fairies!

 

[Milfoil]

Still looking into this 'tanging' and tanging coit/quoit thing. The Old English dictionary gives:

Old English to Modern English

tang1 [] f (-e/-a) pincers, tongs, forceps [used in sing, and pl]
tange [] f (-an/-an) pincers, tongs, forceps [used in sing, and pl]

Calc [] m Shoe

Modern English to Old English

pot [] crocc f, crocca m crock; crúce f pitcher; gréofa m [Ger griebe] pan, pott m

The Welsh for Kettle is Tengell

discus
1650s, from L. discus "discus, disk," from Gk. diskos "disk, quoit, platter."

The old 15th C word for disc or platter was also quoit so it does sound as though tanging quoits could be a reference to using the fire tongues to hit pans and pewter or tin plates.

Unable to find anything else though about why.

 

[Black Comb]

As I'm sure you know, in Lancashire a quoit is a small wooden "house" - as in pigeon quoit.

 

[Milfoil]

As I'm sure you know, in Lancashire a quoit is a small wooden "house" - as in pigeon quoit.

Oooh, no, I didn't know that - thanks!

 

[Black Comb]

Well I've heard of pigeon quoits and the rest is supposition.