BBKA: one member one vote?

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not really anymore with the sites on the internet that could be used for collecting votes.

I think the BBKA needs to be brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century. There needs to be a real hard look at what they do and what they stand for and decide what their core values are and stick to them.

The whole system of overall umbrella, Counties and then districts each with their own committees and some being charities some not, some forward looking, some insular and not wanting to expand as they feel its to much like hard work.

Some Not wanting to spend money on decent speakers and having the same old same old rubbish year in year out.

Something needs to be done and soon otherwise the rise in beekeeping will collapse and all the good new members will go else where. We need to work with other organisations, like the natural guys, and BFA, WBKA, SBKA not shun them.

Committees being run by members that have been there for decades in some cases because new members are to scared to stand up and say yea I can do that.

Collection is easy, but there would be very few willing to complete surveys. They don't really care as first and foremost people want BDI and perhaps the social aspect of a local group. Politics is very low down the list –-the world at large in microcosm.
 
i think OMOV is only being proposed by the trustee because the trustees got defeated by the dleagates last year at the ADM when the delegates voted down a £1 increase in BBKA fees

The associations voted against the £1 increase, MM. A minor distinction, but important. In recent years, the executive has painted the delegates as an unruly mob. In truth, they are there to represent the views of their association, but sadly, even associations don't agree, so this whole us and them business is something of a red herring.

From what I could gather those opposing the £1 increase wanted to see more robust financial governance before more money was granted to BBKA.

That seems to have been done and things have greatly improved in that direction under Howard Pool's direction.
 
If they wanted to add some more accountability into the process why wouldn't they get the association committees to vote on them prior to the ADM and then the membership vote would reflect the views of the membership?

Isn't that what people do? We gather the views of our members and these shape policy.

We have even done online polls to show gather hard data about what our members actually think about BBKA policy.
 
The idea of getting ones associations delegates to represent members views at ADM's etc is to put it quite frankly Bullocks.

How so, Beefriendly? It's what I have done the last couple of years and my predecessor before me. I'm also sure that there are plenty of others who do the same thing. So how is it not possible?
 
I suggest the road to becoming a trustee is long and hard. Even becoming a Delegate is challenging and time consuming.
I am thankful to those beekeepers who give up their time and effort to fill the places.
BUT how many actually truly represent the wishes of the associations they speak for or report back accurately to these associations? How many actively pursue matters on the simple guy with a hives behalf? How many have the management and accounting skills to detect anomalies in reports?
Call it what you will, governance, management etc. Someone should have been noticing the Adopt a Beehive financial situation long before it emerged into the harsh light of day. It's not sufficient to be willing to stand up to the plate - skills, knowledge and character are essential prerequisites.
RANT OVER.

Adopt a Beehive is just one matter that has been raised many times, John.

But if you don't believe you're getting the full story, why not ask for a more thorough report? I'm sure there is one to be had, but it won't be printed in the newsletter as most people won't read it and would prefer the edited highlights.
 
I use professional survey companies for market research. People register with these services and are paid to complete the surveys; the return rate is still around ~40%.

A good start would be to make the BBKA more transparent, maybe even moving the ADM so the budget can be voted when it is published not months later?

Rather than one member, one vote a place to begin would be to give local associations a vote which is rolled up to the county associations and the delegates would then represent the majority view of the associations, not the board of the county?
 
The BBKA have looked at moving the date of the ADM and from memory, the alternative date did not suit delegates and associations and the date change was rejected.

I am aware that various Area Associations elect their Delegates annually and they will seek a specific mandate from their membership in terms of the way the Delegate votes at the ADM. It is understood that the Delegate will have a degree of discretion about how they vote if amendments to propositions come from the floor at the ADM. Problems then arise when the Delegate packs are distributed too late to be properly considered at an Area Association's AGM....
 
The BBKA have looked at moving the date of the ADM and from memory, the alternative date did not suit delegates and associations and the date change was rejected.

I am aware that various Area Associations elect their Delegates annually and they will seek a specific mandate from their membership in terms of the way the Delegate votes at the ADM. It is understood that the Delegate will have a degree of discretion about how they vote if amendments to propositions come from the floor at the ADM. Problems then arise when the Delegate packs are distributed too late to be properly considered at an Area Association's AGM....

You have to wonder what the value of the ADM actually is if they are voting to approve a budget that's months old and not giving local members enough time to voice an opinion on what's being discussed?
 
So Parglye, when are you going to give the BBKA the benefit of your experience and become a Trustee? Or can I sub-contract you to lead this project for us pathetic inward thinking can't do's? :)

Draw up the spec for what the BBKA want and I'll happily tender for it ... I've a past life in marketing and business consultancy so I can do as well as think but I've stopped doing owt for nowt these days ... and whilst I would happily stand as a Trustee I think the prospect of trying to drag the BBKA into the 21st Century in the face of what we see of the BBKA from grass root level would drive me to an early grave ...

If you believe that the BBKA do a good job and the offered cap doesn't fit then I'm afraid you need to get out and talk to the membership which (from where I sit) are not immensely impressed with much of what has been provided.

If the 'new look' trustees (and maybe you are one of them ?) start to look a bit more at what can/could be done with our leading beekeeping association and perhaps start and take a more can do attitude then perhaps those able but disillusioned members might join in and offer their skills and assistance.

My ideas are all feasible given the will ... I'm grateful to the unpaid Trustees who give their time - but, perhaps that's the problem ? It may need someone paid properly and accountable to drive things forward.
 
Adopt a Beehive is just one matter that has been raised many times, John.

But if you don't believe you're getting the full story, why not ask for a more thorough report? I'm sure there is one to be had, but it won't be printed in the newsletter as most people won't read it and would prefer the edited highlights.

For sure there was a blockage in the information flow when the Ken Basterfield situation was developing. I picked up on it through this forum and emailed our local association secretary for information. She was new in post and had to ask their previous incumbent. Even then the message was somewhat less than fully informative.
I very much doubt it would have seen the light of day among our members were it not for this forum.
I have found the BBKA have a Facebook group which would be an excellent parallel conduit to disseminate information (I don't suppose they would care to post here although we seem to have some representative forum members)
 
How so, Beefriendly? It's what I have done the last couple of years and my predecessor before me. I'm also sure that there are plenty of others who do the same thing. So how is it not possible?

They have their own opinions which can be difficult to change. If "they" don't agree with what you would like them to ask it seems impossible to get them to do so. I know from bitter experience.
Similarly its also proved difficult to get anything changed even at local level. One issue I tried to highlight, only at local association level, was the stupidity of giving swarms of unknown temperament to raw novices. No wonder so many of our novices shortly decided beekeeping wasn't for them. Needless to say this is still my local associations preferred policy.
I find its a no win situation with usually the loudest shouters and political movers having the last word.

Many local association committee members in some (not all cases) are the politically motivated power seekers. A good example is the new chairman of my local association. He doesn't even keep bees!

As a BBKA member I cannot see any mechanism to air any issues or opinions to the BBKA governing body itself whilst the current bottleneck to ordinary members being able to make their feeling being known remain in place.
It appears that the BBKA may well be totally unaware of what their grass roots members think.
I stopped banging my head against this wall a while back.
 
Is it just me or do the views and responses of Beefriendly remind you of a past member known as "Thyllamus". Has he re-emerged under a different avator?
 
Is it just me or do the views and responses of Beefriendly remind you of a past member known as "Thyllamus". Has he re-emerged under a different avator?

Notwithstanding who or what is posting, the fundamental problems of poor monitoring, lack of transparency and difficulty of communication "up the ladder" require addressing. It's not easy and I wouldn't suggest it is.
 
Is it just me or do the views and responses of Beefriendly remind you of a past member known as "Thyllamus". Has he re-emerged under a different avator?

Pure coincidence - that we have a cluster of retired microbiologist keeping Buckfast bees near the heather in the North East.
 
In recent years, the executive has painted the delegates as an unruly mob. In truth, they are there to represent the views of their association, but sadly, even associations don't agree, so this whole us and them business is something of a red herring.

It has been unedifying, by all accounts. There were some odd events around 2015 - the SDM that nobody actually wanted that was called for July, and at it the proposal from the Executive to change the ADM date to July - defeated. The summer SDM date showed how difficult it was for associations to send a delegate - slap bang in the middle of peak beekeeping, holiday season, etc. This was then followed by the withdrawal of payment of Delegate travelling expenses for ADM/SDM meetings - the subject of two propositions for next month's ADM seeking to re-instate this. It all reeked of efforts to discourage attendance at the ADM by making it difficult and expensive.

I know Admin gets twitchy when names are named, so let's just say that there are only four bad apples left in the Trustees now, and two of these will be gone by next month. This contrasts sharply with 2014, when 9 of the 13 trustees apparently favoured personal politics over documentary evidence or good management. There has been a steady shift in the balance of power as new Trustees have come along to replace them. Thankfully the constitution limits the length of time any trustee can serve; unfortunately, departing trustees sometimes move sideways into unelected posts and thus retain involvement long after their "best before" date has expired.

A "them and us" attitude has been fostered by past BBKA Execs. My father's problems started at the 2014 ADM when, as a relatively new Trustee, he stood up and sided with the Delegates, IIRC noting that what was being presented as "the view of the Executive" was something he hadn't even been consulted upon, and certainly wouldn't have supported. At that point the efforts to silence or remove him began, leading to the shameful Dispute Resolution Panel episode & the December 2014 SDM where the associations refused to see him suspended.

Each Trustee has a legal obligation to perform responsible management of the BBKA. My father, a Trustee, was refused in 2014 & 2015 - under the old regime - access to the accounts or to details of contracts with 3rd parties because he had started to ask uncomfortable questions regarding whether the money was being spent on the purposes it had been received for. Excuse me? One group of Trustees preventing other Trustees from seeing the books? Too many bad apples back then, see.

In another example, I understand that one of this year's new Trustees resigned after six weeks because he was refused access to the accounts. Presumably having seen what my father had gone through was a strong factor in deciding to resign rather than challenge this.

From what I could gather those opposing the £1 increase wanted to see more robust financial governance before more money was granted to BBKA.

That seems to have been done and things have greatly improved in that direction under Howard Pool's direction.

Yes, the accounts show that having made a consistent loss of tens of thousands under the last lot, this year it has been turned around to a surplus of tens of thousands. Reference my comments above re: balance of power shifting.
 
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For sure there was a blockage in the information flow when the Ken Basterfield situation was developing. I picked up on it through this forum and emailed our local association secretary for information. She was new in post and had to ask their previous incumbent. Even then the message was somewhat less than fully informative.
I very much doubt it would have seen the light of day among our members were it not for this forum.
I have found the BBKA have a Facebook group which would be an excellent parallel conduit to disseminate information (I don't suppose they would care to post here although we seem to have some representative forum members)

As I read over this thread again and consider the responses, it reinforces to me that it is not the voting that should be fixed first, but the transparency. Both are broken, but every member voting in the absence of information is IMHO worse than where we are now.

Not only is OMOV prone to dominance by 'single interest' campaigns, but the absence of any real transparency amplifies this by causing many to switch off. How different would it be if any association member could look at BBKA meeting minutes, for instance, to see what was being discussed on their behalf and how their membership fees were being spent?

At the moment the only information that gets published is the current year's ADM papers, containig various reports and a summary of the accounts in a huge bundle, and we have seen how the disastrous Adopt a Beehive figures have successfully hidden in plain sight there for five years.

Wouldn't it be rather better if inerested members could follow what was happening through the year, and knowing this the various committees would think "what will the members make of this when they see it?". This in itself might help guide Trustees in their decision making. Furthermore, seeing what the trustees do might make more members feel that they could (or should!) step forward as trustees.

Only once that level of transparency is routine should we even consider changing the voting structure. So I'll be asking my Delegate to oppose OMOV when it is dicussed at the ADM next month.
 
As a BBKA member I cannot see any mechanism to air any issues or opinions to the BBKA governing body itself whilst the current bottleneck to ordinary members being able to make their feeling being known remain in place.
It appears that the BBKA may well be totally unaware of what their grass roots members think.
I stopped banging my head against this wall a while back.


While I accept the position about swarms is somewhat daft, has anyone trid to change the policy?

As for your chairman, not keeping bees, I imagine that shows there is a paucity of members willing to commit a little time for the division. It's the same everywhere.

But I'd be surprised if your division/association didn't have proper channels to raise issues so they are properly dealt with. How could they run the thing if they had no formal structure to steer their direction?
 
As a BBKA member I cannot see any mechanism to air any issues or opinions to the BBKA governing body itself whilst the current bottleneck to ordinary members being able to make their feeling being known remain in place.
It appears that the BBKA may well be totally unaware of what their grass roots members think.
I stopped banging my head against this wall a while back.

If there's a bottleneck, why don't you unblock it?

I can tell you the executive committee is made very aware of what grass roots members think of policy when delegates represent their associations.

Even if I am the only one (and I am not), they get it from me.
 

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