The BBKA website

[willis944]

Bridge Picture

I know where you are coming from, I told WBKA what I thought of there website having a picture that looks like the Clifton Suspension Bridge lol

But you forget to mention that you were in error and it is actually the Manai Suspension Bridge, one of the most iconic images of Wales.

But it does demonstrate that peoples perceptions of a website are based on different factors, some on general appearance, some on functionality and others based on its usefulness to them personally. For £40,000 you would have expected it to cover 99% of all expectations.

It would be interesting to know how much revenue is generated from the site PA

I know the WBKA have sent a number of requests for content to be posted on their site and for ideas of what should be included, but very little is/has been received. This leaves those in charge of development at a bit of a loose end, we must all remember that most of these sites are run by volunteers who would crawl over broken glass for the type of resources the BBKA seem to have.

Support your local organisation site, send them anything you think applicable, but don't be disappointed if it doesn't get used, just keep supporting it.

Willis

 

[Travelator]

I think the BBKA as a whole is in an uncomfortable position because it's mostly run by hard working volunteers, but people increasingly expect it to be run smoothly and professionally and they just can't meet those expectations. The website is just a symptom of the general problem.

Also, at risk of setting of a major flame war, I don't think 40k is a horrifying amount of money to spend on a website. I don't think it's helpful to quote a single figure either - we should be looking at how much it costs per year. A good website with lots of useful information, forums, shop, etc, would probably need someone (or a mix of people) working several days a week to support it - which would cost many thousands of pounds if they're actually being paid.

 

[DanBee]

I don't think 40k is a horrifying amount of money to spend on a website. I don't think it's helpful to quote a single figure either - we should be looking at how much it costs per year. A good website with lots of useful information, forums, shop, etc, would probably need someone (or a mix of people) working several days a week to support it - which would cost many thousands of pounds if they're actually being paid.

My understanding was that the £40,000 figure was the total paid so far for development and hosting of the site, and does not include 'absorbed' costs relating to the administration and editing of content, shop items, etc, which come under the general 'office' costs and/or volunteered time.

 

[psafloyd]

Dan, it's quite hard to win an argument about whether the glass is half empty or half full. I find myself agreeing with much of what both you and Doug have said. Very pretty website though, but for £40k it should also mow the lawn and cook the dinner.

Interestingly I received an email this morning from a commercial organisation, which I've cut and pasted below. Having seen first hand the massive burden put on individuals just to keep basic membership functions ticking over, I wonder if BBKA would have been better investing in this sort of functionality?

"We have created an online system specifically designed for clubs, societies and associations to help make life easier. It is called XXXXXX, and allows you to:
• Manage all your membership data securely
• Handle subscriptions, including joint memberships
• Run your bookings for events, conferences or courses
• Collect payments from members by Direct Debit, Paypal, bank transfer and cards
• Create email or text messaging lists and communicate easily with your members
• Reduce admin costs
• Increase membership and member participation rates
The service has been priced from £60p.a, is quick to set up and easy to use. It is currently being used by clubs, societies and associations with between 50 and 5000 members. Please click here to view a selection of featured societies. We are running a no-obligation, free trial. This allows you to use the system freely for 3 months to see if it could help you."

Chris,

Bumped into our local/county treasurer this morning and he is looking at something very similar, having investigated something similar for some months.

We're discussing it at the county meeting next week and perhaps we will trial it. If it works well, it could be the answer many BKAs are seeking.

The one I am thinking of already has a few BKAs using it, so I may well follow up with them and see if it has proved a success.

 

[psafloyd]

I think the BBKA as a whole is in an uncomfortable position because it's mostly run by hard working volunteers, but people increasingly expect it to be run smoothly and professionally and they just can't meet those expectations. The website is just a symptom of the general problem. [QUOTE/]

Fair point, but communication is patchy and poor at best with information handed out on a drip feed/need to know basis. That is a cultural issue, rather than a lack of resource.

Also, at risk of setting of a major flame war, I don't think 40k is a horrifying amount of money to spend on a website. I don't think it's helpful to quote a single figure either - we should be looking at how much it costs per year. A good website with lots of useful information, forums, shop, etc, would probably need someone (or a mix of people) working several days a week to support it - which would cost many thousands of pounds if they're actually being paid.

Again, fair enough, but the most basic information is not being shared via or updated on the website. There's a reason for it, but it's not a good reason.

Websites can be updated fairly easily and quickly these days and basic information should be available to the membership immediately. It also doesn't cost the earth to deliver.

I think the website looks nice, but doesn't work well. It's navigation is suspect and hasn't really been tested properly by someone who knows what they're doing.

 

[psafloyd]

My understanding was that the £40,000 figure was the total paid so far for development and hosting of the site, and does not include 'absorbed' costs relating to the administration and editing of content, shop items, etc, which come under the general 'office' costs and/or volunteered time.

That is exactly what I feared and would love to know the true total.

 

[Travelator]

communication is patchy and poor at best with information handed out on a drip feed/need to know basis. That is a cultural issue, rather than a lack of resource.

...

I think the website looks nice, but doesn't work well. It's navigation is suspect and hasn't really been tested properly by someone who knows what they're doing.

I agree with all of this. I believe that the solution is to run things more professionally, and to accept that this will also cost money. Unfortunately, I fear that many people will see this as "throwing good money after bad", so it will be difficult to make it happen.

 

[einsteinagogo]

But you forget to mention that you were in error and it is actually the Manai Suspension Bridge, one of the most iconic images of Wales.

<snip>

Willis

just a small typo here!, Menai Suspension Bridge (Porthaethwy) which is over the Menai Strait, separating Anglesey (Ynys Mon) from the main land. (Gwynedd where you live, but you'll know that!).

I quite like the WKBA website, I'm surprised there are few Associations in the North (e.g. Gwynedd/Clwyd) (e.g. Flint/Conwy and Anglesey)

 

[MuswellMetro]

In BBKA Constitution-speak your federation is an 'Area Association' and thus it does not matter if it maps to a specific county or not. The key test is that you collect & pay capitation to the BBKA.

You should get the service that you are entitled to, and that you are still waiting after six months is very poor. Perhaps tell them that you will withhold next year's capitation payment until you receive a satisfactory response?!

If you look on the BBKA contacts page you'll find David Teasdale listed as 'webmaster' with contact details. Alternatively phone Jane Moseley at the office. Emphasise your 'Area Association' status and ask why it has taken so long to get this set up.

the name you quote to contact gives me NO hope of getting a result to my request, i have been in contact with him this year on another matter as he requested that we support a BBKA stand at a national garden event at Alexandra Palace, we had to pull out becuase EVERY detail he provided was wrong, and it took ages and multiply calls to get even a little progress

BBKA had no idea what the event organisation required and just wanted to repeat the previous years event that was at Stoneleigh as organised by local beekeepers ,,there is a slight difference between an arena event and a alexandra palace small exhibition stand ( for instance the BBKA WBC hive video booth BBKA wanted us to use was bigger than the total stand offered by the event organiser , BBKA also wanted us to buy trees andshrubs for the event ,when BBKA realised it was not possible they wanted our 6 man organizing committee to meet him at stoneligh for a talk on a week day (we were already giving up two weekdays for the event as we all work M-F , NO ,

it went silent for two months then phone call in a panic and we were told to recruit 45 members for each day so 15 per three hours session could talk too and try to sign up the general public on adopt the beehive scheme 45 needed as they had every very busy at stonelerigh ,hmmmm the stands were restricted to 4 person use at anyone time and no talking or sign up was allowed by the organsier in the walkway due to H&S ,
[VID][/VID]so our joint response ended "off"

 

[alanf]

My understanding was that the £40,000 figure was the total paid so far for development and hosting of the site, and does not include 'absorbed' costs relating to the administration and editing of content, shop items, etc, which come under the general 'office' costs and/or volunteered time.

Sounds like the external spend. As far as commercial websites go, that's not a large sum. The disconnect appears to be that ideas are proposed and then launched without the organisation or a realistic budget behind them. The result is that numbers are plucked out of the air, for example regarding an online shop. What accounts presented to the delegates meeting show is that trading is losing money (far more than the website cost) with no realistic prospect of getting anywhere near the optimistic forecasts for future profits.

If the website should be essential for anything, it's as a basic directory of information. That's not so difficult but it does need content management and clear delegation of responsibility for keeping content up to date. The piecemeal updates suggest that's not happening. Meanwhile, the expense, time and development seems to have been on such as the online shop and forum which are doing a partial job at best.

 

[Nige.Coll]

As a newbee i find the BBKA site hard work and not that helpful. A lot of the information there is out of date.
The old papers seem to be free that is nice.
shows how much i know the 2013 module 1 left me thinking first part was easy lol.

other than that the site is antisocial.

 

[dpearce4]

I have never been able to sign on even though I have been a member for over 4 years. Quite a few other local members have the same issue.

 

[Duchy]

Do you normally get results by being offensive?

 

[stoneleighhouse]

utterly utterly useless

 

[DanBee]

Sounds like the external spend. As far as commercial websites go, that's not a large sum.

On the one hand, I would agree since I have seen spending far in excess of that for a relaunch. However the site is not itself complex, yet perversely a number of technical/functional decisions have been taken where most with some experience would say "Don't do it that way" (e.g. the discussion forum...) I do wonder what that says about the web designers they used - perhaps they were learning on the job? Also, since no detailed accounts are available it is not clear who paid for the early design/implementation mistakes to be rectified - the designers or the BBKA?

What concerns me about the amount spent in this case is that the money comes from BBKA member subscriptions... the money that each association member pays to their local association and is then whisked away as obligatory BBKA "capitation". This capitation is rising to £17 per member next year. Has that £40,000 been a productive spend over the past four years?

If the website should be essential for anything, it's as a basic directory of information. That's not so difficult but it does need content management and clear delegation of responsibility for keeping content up to date. The piecemeal updates suggest that's not happening. Meanwhile, the expense, time and development seems to have been on such as the online shop and forum which are doing a partial job at best.

I would agree entirely.

 

[DanBee]

As a newbee i find the BBKA site hard work and not that helpful. A lot of the information there is out of date.
The old papers seem to be free that is nice.

Interesting point about the free papers. When faced with Doug Brown's response I was tempted just to "publish and be damned" here so that everyone could have free papers too since that was one of the site's problems.

One area of the BBKA that has done a conspicuously good job over the years is the Exam Board. Few know that they are a separate body to the BBKA, to maintain a degree of distance and impartiality, however their funding is essentially controlled by the BBKA. Despite styling itself as an "educational charity" in recent years*, the BBKA has never been overly generous to the Exam Board, so as a result the paltry sum gained by the sale of past papers to members has been an important part of the Exam Board's funding. I was very loathe to pull this rug from under the Exam Board, as much as I think it distasteful that they should charge members for past papers. Earlier this year the matter of charging/funding was addressed and the papers are now free downloads.

* although I hear that's now changing

 

[DanBee]

Interestingly, just reviewing last year's accounts for a different reason, and in the section regarding 'Public Benefit' (charities being obliged to demonstrate a degree of public benefit), the website is listed as the first of eight activities:

The importance the BBKA attaches to educating the public is evident from the following regular activities:

• Its website (www.-------------) containing a great deal of information that is current, useful and educative

My bold!

 

[SteveJ]

Dan
Prehaps this is something you could put to a resolution at the ADM

SteveJ

 

[roche]

It'll take 5 years and a press campaign.

 

[DanBee]

Dan
Prehaps this is something you could put to a resolution at the ADM

SteveJ

I've asked. My own county now has so many ADM proposals on its books to discuss and decide prior to the October deadline that it can't accept more!