BBKA ADM Propositions

[Hivemaker.]

Brexit

That seems to of gone quiet, anyone heard anything more about it lately?

 

[Uncle Betty]

On the subject of funding whilst we are still members of the EU a subsidy per hive is paid to FERA. In the UK this contributes towards the Inspectorate. If all beekeepers recorded their hives on the NBU website this funding would increase considerably and we might have funds for R&D. In one of the EU countries, I believe it was Slovenia the EU subsidy was paid directly to Beekeepers. The result the following year was that the number of beekeepers and hives almost doubled and the figures were verifiable. In a 'rich' country like the UK a small subsidy would probably not be an incentive so we need to have a licencing system to ensure all hives are recorded and the finances increase. Even after Brexit we could have reasonable confidence that this is one agricultural subsidy that will be maintained.

We are being told to prepare for compulsory registration in 2020. The carrot being dangled is just that.

 

[justsmith]

Like this?
http://www.theabk.com.au/articles/2016/8/4/queen-insemination-in-germany

yep was thinking of somthing like that, we not as big of a country as germany and i sure bbka could do sort ouf a few subspecies of good drones to use for amm and carniolan queens to improve the bee stock of each type

 

[B+.]

yep was thinking of somthing like that, we not as big of a country as germany and i sure bbka could do sort ouf a few subspecies of good drones to use for amm and carniolan queens to improve the bee stock of each type

That would require a great deal of co-operation with breeders.

 

[Hivemaker.]

yep was thinking of somthing like that, we not as big of a country as germany and i sure bbka could do sort ouf a few subspecies of good drones to use for amm and carniolan queens to improve the bee stock of each type

I'm sure there would be enough people willing to travel around doing the inseminating for £18 or 20 per queen, as long as there was a good supply of good quality drones and about 45 or so queens to inseminate at each location.

 

[SDM]

My guess is that due to incompetence of the beekeeper or "wrong breed of bees" colonies do not survive the Winter and need replacements.

I'm intrigued, what is this "wrong breed of bee"?
I'm yet to come across a bee not capable of surviving anything a British winter can throw at it.

 

[B+.]

I'm sure there would be enough people willing to travel around doing the inseminating for £18 or 20 per queen, as long as there was a good supply of good quality drones and about 45 or so queens to inseminate at each location.

The drones are usually provided by the local institute from specified lines. Frau Winkler then updates pedigrees on the system
She doesn't' travel anymore but you can book an appointment at Elsfeth

 

[Eyeman]

I'm sure there would be enough people willing to travel around doing the inseminating for £18 or 20 per queen, as long as there was a good supply of good quality drones and about 45 or so queens to inseminate at each location.

Lets get away from this notion that hobby beekeepers in the UK can't breed quality queens. There are the usual suspects 'shouting' how their attempts at breeding has been thwarted by others!
I'm extremely happy with the quality of my stock, having recently restocked one of my apiaries with a 'highly' rated UK breeders queens- it turned out that my stock are as good if not better.
So forget all this nonsense about hobby beekeepers not being able to breed good queens- if I can do it then others can do the same.

 

[Hivemaker.]

She doesn't' travel anymore but you can book an appointment at Elsfeth

Actually I was talking about people traveling around this country doing inseminating, not booking an appointment to take their queens to Elsfeth.

 

[fatshark]

What proportion of beekeepers rear queens at all? I don't mean dozens, but enough to be entirely self-sufficient? I also don't mean letting a colony requeen itself after swarming ... that isn't queen rearing.

I'd be astounded if it was 20% and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was 10% or less. I ask at most BKA's I speak at and am consistently surprised at how few rear queens.

Is there any surprise that there's a huge demand for queens?

I think that's one of the differences between beekeepers and beebuyers.

I'd prefer we didn't import bees or queens. I think the easy and cheap importation of bees contributes to the generally rather low standard of beekeeping in the UK*. Why go to all the effort of learning how to judge queen quality and breed from your best when it's so much easier to spend €15 and get one through the post? The way we train new beekeepers also contributes significantly to early-season demand.

A ban won't work because they can be smuggled in "where the sun doesn't shine" (well, perhaps not there, but easily) and because we can't currently cope without imports.

Devon is lovely ... I gave a talk there a couple of weekends ago. A lovely place and lovely people

* present company excepted of course ... However, remember that forums are a vey biased subset of the hobby. Look at the beekeepers around you in your association or locality. What proportion are competent and how many of them stagger from one calamity to another?

 

[For want of a better word]

No-one is destroying the few remaining populations of Ammish type bees. Just the opposite, they have protected status on Colonsay and Oronsay, imports to IofMann banned (still no varroa), NI Galtee Amm breeding program; a new reserve for Cornish Amm's in your neck of the woods, new breeding site somewhere in England etc etc. Amm's have never had it so good. Shame they don't perform as well as many beekeepers would like.
Its the dominant mongrel population that is the major problem. Depending on your locality, is often aggressive and a useless honey gatherer to boot. Or at least it is in my area. I have no intention of setting off on another 5 year useless breeding exercise that ends up back at the same starting point as it started from. Mongrels do not breed true and with no control over drones forget it, peeing up a stick at least produces a known result.
If you want guaranteed (as much as temper can be guaranteed) and decent yields of honey then imports of known gentle queens is the way forward and is totally sustainable.
At £35 quid a queen it's hardly expensive, about 7 jars of honey, a mere fraction of ones harvest from these designer honey gatherers. Of course you need to choose your breeder with care....and if you hate imports get them from HM.

Beekeepera persons from the planet Plob will agree with you ... most with their feet on the ground in the UK will not!!

Yeghes da

 

[SDM]

I'm extremely happy with the quality of my stock, having recently restocked one of my apiaries with a 'highly' rated UK breeders queens- it turned out that my stock are as good if not better.

But how do yours compare with the best imported stock? You may simply be proving that neither you nor "highly rated" UK breeders can produce anything of particular quality.

 

[B+.]

Actually I was talking about people traveling around this country doing inseminating, not booking an appointment to take their queens to Elsfeth.

Ah...ok. I'm not sure how that would work, unless the inseminator took pipettes of semen with him/her. If the 2a queen ("breeder queen") could be guaranteed, that would work. We don't have a pedigree database here though. it could be done, but, every breeder would have to divulge all their breeding information.

 

[peteinwilts]

is this not just another way of the BBKA removing the right of choice to all beekeepers?

if beekeepers feel that strongly, they will vote with their wallet, and buy local. (district, county, region, country... where do you draw the line?)

as originally stated, a vast amount of queens are imported, and many suppiers have waiting lists or sold out signs. this is because there is a demand, and not just from beefarmers.

I tried to stick to uk queens, but could not find the quantity or quality. I have a mix of local and foreign queens, and quite often many of the foreign queens or their offspring do better, have better temperments and out live the locals.
I have not tried all local queens and not all foreign suppliers, so this is a random sample of suppliers and breeders. Most of my non-home bred queens come from a forum member, and they are excellent and a good price.

I personally do not wish to be ruled by a bbka dictatorship who wants to force non-bbka members to do things their way... I do not want to keep bees in an old fashioned manner!. Thankfully, I do not think it would be approved as the evidence against importing is wishywashy at best.
it seems like another daft bbka scheme to rile their members up to a disapointing end. Something else for them to moan about.

I also buy welsh and new zealand lamb, danish bacon, indian tea, columbian coffee, cornish pastys, scottish raspberrys and australian wine. I could get all of the listed locally, but also (mostly) do not get the quantity or quality.

This thread should stick to the political section, or better still, the bbka forum.

 

[SDM]

Beekeepera persons from the planet Plob will agree with you ... most with their feet on the ground in the UK will not!!

Yeghes da

The Irish have just proved pure Amm all over the country. I've tried a few but not impressed so far. Temperament is ok but they're being destroyed by my buckfast for productivity.
Local mongrels here are extremely unpleasant and unproductive.
Requeening annually with imported queens would be money in the bank and less work for me in swarm season
So what exactly is it you think is so off with what Beefriendly said?
I'm dying to hear what those with their head up their arses call facts.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Ah...ok. I'm not sure how that would work, unless the inseminator took pipettes of semen with him/her.

As I said earlier, the inseminator has to be supplied with the drones and queens at each location, they are just going there to do the inseminating.

 

[B+.]

As I said earlier, the inseminator has to be supplied with the drones and queens at each location, they are just going there to do the inseminating.

Isn't that just inseminating mongrel queens with semen from mongrel drones?
No doubt there'd be some people who just want to say they have an II queen in their hive, but, she'd have no breeding value. I certainly have better things to do with my time than fart about inseminating crap

 

[Hivemaker.]

Isn't that just inseminating mongrel queens with semen from mongrel drones?

What it is would all depend on the person or group that you were inseminating for, whatever they selected, you would just be providing an insemination service.
Much like Michael Collier when he went inseminating for the university for a couple of days.

 

[Eyeman]

But how do yours compare with the best imported stock? You may simply be proving that neither you nor "highly rated" UK breeders can produce anything of particular quality.

What is often forgotten is how a particular stock performs has as much to do with the skills of the beekeeper and his location as it has to do with the quality of the queen.
If you think that UK breeders can't produce quality queens then you need to get out a bit more.

 

[Beefriendly]

Beekeepera persons from the planet Plob will agree with you ... most with their feet on the ground in the UK will not!!

So you have been telling porkies and Amm's are all fictitious beasts. Well I never. How the worm has turned.