BBKA: one member one vote?

[simoncav]

Interesting idea - Unless we move the date from January, it would be bloody cold to all meet in a tent - and big marquees with a floor / heating / toilets etc are not cheap to hire...

I think it has to be a hotel or conference venue realistically.

 

[pargyle]

Simon, to have a large area for the meeting plus accommodation, and more importantly to keep costs low, would it not be better to use a large tent/marquee, and everyone could "camp" in that.

YES .... Have it in a large field - then everyone could bring their own tent/Camper van/Caravan - perhaps some side shows, entertainment, beekeeping lectures in smaller marquees, supported by beekeeping equipment suppliers who would contribute to the event ...

You could charge non-BBKA members full price for attending (but not voting) and do a reduced cost to BBKA members - who could vote whilst they attend - if they don't want to enjoy the event then they could still vote on line - or if the BBKA really got their act together the whole AGM could be webcast so people could sit at home and still attend the AGM.

Do it all over a weekend - or even Fri/Sat/Sun with the AGM on the Saturday for those that just want a day trip.

Of course - you could do the same and hold it at the NEC ....

But ... it would take a bit of forward thinking, open mindedness, faith and planning ... whether the BBKA could ever achieve anything on this scale I'm not sure ...

Could be a nice little earner if it was inclusive of other interested organisations and (apart from the AGM) opened up to the Public at large - you know - those people that the BBKA are 'promoting awareness of the craft of beekeeping' to ...

I know ... I believe in fairies and I've just seen a flying pig ...

 

[Hivemaker.]

Interesting idea - Unless we move the date from January, it would be bloody cold to all meet in a tent - and big marquees with a floor / heating / toilets etc are not cheap to hire...

I think it has to be a hotel or conference venue realistically.

We have one you could use out on the farm, free,everyone just bring their own sleeping bag, can also light a couple of bonfires, also have a couple of those plastic mobile toilets, but more of them would be cheap to hire.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

We will also have a big growth in the number of delegates attending the ADM which means we will have to move back to a hotel or other space big enough to hold everyone and that inevitably means an increase in costs to run the ADM and that has to come out of capitation fees or some other source of funds.

Simon, to have a large area for the meeting plus accommodation, and more importantly to keep costs low, would it not be better to use a large tent/marquee, and everyone could "camp" in that.

Interesting idea - Unless we move the date from January, it would be bloody cold to all meet in a tent - and big marquees with a floor / heating / toilets etc are not cheap to hire...

I think it has to be a hotel or conference venue realistically.

Nonsense - masses of conference facilities at kenilworth - acres of land for camping, plenty of hotel accomodation nearby and enormous show halls sitting idle for most of the year - and all on the doorstep of BBKA HQ

 

[pargyle]

Nonsense - masses of conference facilities at kenilworth - acres of land for camping, plenty of hotel accomodation nearby and enormous show halls sitting idle for most of the year - and all on the doorstep of BBKA HQ

OK JBM ... Have you been raiding my store of magic mushrooms ???

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

OK JBM ... Have you been raiding my store of magic mushrooms ???

Just stating a fact - have had to go to the dark place a few times for BA meetings - within a radius of a few hundred yards there are numerous exhibition halls, conference halls and car parking there is a conference hall on site and in the locality there are ample hotels and camp sites. The kennel club has a massive conference centre there and most of the area lies idle for a lot of the time, since the Royal Show was scrapped they're begging for business.
It seems unnecessary barriers are being put up in the way of progress.

'Don't bring me problems - bring me solutions'

 

[simoncav]

Whose putting up barriers? I'm being absolutely open here, but the ADM has to go through a formal agenda and with the best will in the world, its not the most exciting of days, usually...

Scheduling a weekend around the ADM is an interesting idea, but these things take a huge amount of organising as they are. January is not the best month weather-wise so I think we would need to be indoors. I will ask about using other buildings on site, but I'm pretty sure we have tried that approach before.

 

[alldigging]

Whose putting up barriers? I'm being absolutely open here, but the ADM has to go through a formal agenda and with the best will in the world, its not the most exciting of days, usually...

Scheduling a weekend around the ADM is an interesting idea, but these things take a huge amount of organising as they are. January is not the best month weather-wise so I think we would need to be indoors. I will ask about using other buildings on site, but I'm pretty sure we have tried that approach before.

You need to get people using the internet. There's several ways of doing surveys online - but they need to be short and quick to answer. If you make a survey too long then people get bored and don't finish it.

There are various events through the year where you could have trustees sat in a room to listen to views of members on various issues.

If there's nothing in the rules that delegates are supposed to ask the people they represent what they think of the proposals in the ADM, then some of them aren't going to.

Maybe making the delegates more accountable is the first thing to do. To make sure they are obliged to survey their members. They can do this either via meetings or email or websites.

Manchester for instance have included the following in their newsletter:

The BBKA Annual Delegates Meeting (ADM) will be held on 14th January 2017. I will be attending and would seek your input on the proposition that will be put forward. We are supporting a number of new associations in the country to join the BBKA. I believe this is important for the beekeeping community to come together and support each other. Also we are supporting Macclesfield BKA to reinstate the payment of travel expenses for delegates to attend the ADM, but not to include accommodation costs. We believe no assistance in travelling expenses disadvantages smaller associations to attend the meeting and putting their points forward at the ADM. The full documentation this year for the ADM will only be on the BBKA web site in the members area as of the 20th November 2016 I have been informed. No paper copies are to be issued to keep costs down.

Oldham on the other hand have not included anything in their last newsletter.

The information is all there online though. (Would love access to historical stuff too, just because I am nosy) but sometimes we need a few nudges to get us to respond to things.
Sometimes an extra email about a survey or asking for responses - and making it clear from the heading of the article or survey that a response is required.
We are all busy people and I don't think many people would mind an additional reminder.

The BBKA forum is there as a possible mechanism to get more people involved. As is this forum, and the facebook group.

 

[pargyle]

Just stating a fact - have had to go to the dark place a few times for BA meetings - within a radius of a few hundred yards there are numerous exhibition halls, conference halls and car parking there is a conference hall on site and in the locality there are ample hotels and camp sites. The kennel club has a massive conference centre there and most of the area lies idle for a lot of the time, since the Royal Show was scrapped they're begging for business.
It seems unnecessary barriers are being put up in the way of progress.

'Don't bring me problems - bring me solutions'

Just the ideal venue for an annual BBKA thrash - which included the AGM - a proper event organiser would leap at the opportunity to organise something like this I would imagine.

Every time I turn round there is another 'Live' event - Grand designs Live, Country File Live, Gardeneres World Live, why not Beekeeping Live ?

There is not the will, talent or the ability in the current BBKA hieracrchy to organise a professional major event like this - So pay someone to do the whole thing from start to finish ... give them a one year contract (Not one of the nepotistic mates who can do it for a cheapo price - go out to tender and get a firm proposal of what the organiser can offer or interview qualified candidates with a track record of success). The challenge would be to raise enough from the event to pay for the AGM ... it could become the 'MUST GO TO' annual beekeeping event - include the National Honey Show and the Spring Convention - anything that adds to the crowd appeal.

Pick a weekend when there's nothing else on - organise discounted hotel packages and discounts at local restaurants and fish & chip shops for attendees ...

How many UK beekeepers and other interested parties are there -The Bee charities, Buglife, the RSPB, Wax Chandlers - the list is almost endless ... and from what I've seen from the public events that I do with my association Joe Public (and children in particular !) are FASCINATED by bees and beekeeping.

Do it right and it might even make a PROFIT .... !!!!

There's so much that could be done with a Brand like the BBKA in an event like this ... but it won't happen -pathetic inward thinking can't do's ...fighting for their own bit of turf will find every reason to think small or not at all.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just the ideal venue for an annual BBKA thrash - which included the AGM - a proper event organiser would leap at the opportunity to organise something like this I would imagine.

Every time I turn round there is another 'Live' event - Grand designs Live, Country File Live, Gardeneres World Live, why not Beekeeping Live ?

There is not the will, talent or the ability in the current BBKA hieracrchy to organise a professional major event like this - So pay someone to do the whole thing from start to finish ... give them a one year contract (Not one of the nepotistic mates who can do it for a cheapo price - go out to tender and get a firm proposal of what the organiser can offer or interview qualified candidates with a track record of success). The challenge would be to raise enough from the event to pay for the AGM ... it could become the 'MUST GO TO' annual beekeeping event - include the National Honey Show and the Spring Convention - anything that adds to the crowd appeal.

Pick a weekend when there's nothing else on - organise discounted hotel packages and discounts at local restaurants and fish & chip shops for attendees ...

How many UK beekeepers and other interested parties are there -The Bee charities, Buglife, the RSPB, Wax Chandlers - the list is almost endless ... and from what I've seen from the public events that I do with my association Joe Public (and children in particular !) are FASCINATED by bees and beekeeping.

There's so much that could be done with a Brand like the BBKA in an event like this ... but it won't happen -pathetic inward thinking can't do's ...fighting for their own bit of turf will find every reason to think small or not at all.

Amen!

 

[pargyle]

You need to get people using the internet. .

Go the whole hog and do something like this ...

http://www.ubivent.com/en/virtual-events-solutions

 

[Beefriendly]

move back to a hotel or other space big enough to hold everyone and that inevitably means an increase in costs to run the ADM and that has to come out of capitation fees or some other source of funds.

Just a thought about One Member One Vote - How would it be implemented efficiently for the benefit of all members? We know that not all members have access to the Internet, and therefore online voting could not be truly representative for the near future. We could run some form of postal voting system sending information/voting forms out as inserts via the BBKA News, but would members be expected to pay postage to vote, and if not, the costs to the BBKA would be huge. and talk to us. Nicely, please!

Your projected difficulties and finances do not add up in reality. BBKA has around 20,000 members. Second class postage is 53 p ...in the unlikely event that all 20K BBKA members don't have internet that's a projected maximum of around 10K in postage.....quibble about the costs of envelopes and voting slips later. I doubt it would be anywhere near that amount.
Most have internet.
A Conference venue costs from about 3-5K....plus the added mileage costs of attendees.....

Financially it would make more sense to go for OMOV and use a combination of post and internet votes.

The idea of getting ones associations delegates to represent members views at ADM's etc is to put it quite frankly Bullocks.

Obviously I'm desperate to NOT stay in HM's tent or experience the toilet block.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Obviously I'm desperate to NOT stay in HM's tent or experience the toilet block.

Well, Simon did say the meetings were boring, so I thought maybe roast a few pigs, have a clay pigeon shoot, ferret racing,etc.... that would liven things up a bit.
And bring your own toilet paper, bottles of booze/barrels of cider, etc, help keep costs down.

 

[Beefriendly]

Well, Simon did say the meetings were boring, so I thought maybe roast a few pigs, have a clay pigeon shoot, ferret racing,etc.... that would liven things up a bit.
And bring your own toilet paper, bottles of booze/barrels of cider, etc, help keep costs down.

As I said....desperate to avoid

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Well, Simon did say the meetings were boring, so I thought maybe roast a few pigs, have a clay pigeon shoot, ferret racing,etc.... that would liven things up a bit.
And bring your own toilet paper, bottles of booze/barrels of cider, etc, help keep costs down.

Sounds like a great idea for a weekend. How about putting ferrets down your trousers to entertain the townies?

 

[simoncav]

So Parglye, when are you going to give the BBKA the benefit of your experience and become a Trustee? Or can I sub-contract you to lead this project for us pathetic inward thinking can't do's?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

the costs to the BBKA would be huge. Running a combination of online and postal voting would be complex and expensive to manage.

Use some of the cash raked in from the adopt a 'beehive' sc....heme

 

[alldigging]

What do constitutions say about the role of the ADM delegate?

Dorset BKA have a list of jobs
https://dorsetbka.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/dbka-all-role-descriptions.pdf
BBKA Delegate
The BBKA Delegate attends the Annual Delegates’ Meeting (ADM) which takes place in January each year, in addition to the Forum which currently takes place in September. The delegate represents, votes and presents any propositions or topics for discussion on behalf of the Dorset BKA, and reports to the Committee on the outcomes.
The Forum is an opportunity to debate topics determined by Area Associations and the BBKA Executive. The delegate attends to take part in the discussions and to provide feedback to the Area Association
Delegates to South West Counties Joint Consultative Council (x3 plus reserve)
Represent the views of the Dorset BKA to the SWCJCC and report back on issues debated



http://www.-------------/files/libr...delegate_role_&_responsibility_1366650865.pdf
This is on the BBKA site
"Upon receipt of the final documentation the delegate will feedback and circulate the information received to their Executive. Upon review the Executive will then determine how the delegate will vote at the ADM. The vote is to be reflective of the membership within their area rather than that of a
personal perspective."


What's the executive in that context?
At at what point are membership supposed to be consulted?


AFAIK the individual voting record was agreed to be kept secret at last years ADM and so we would never know how our delegates voted unless everyone voted one way.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

So Parglye, when are you going to give the BBKA the benefit of your experience and become a Trustee? Or can I sub-contract you to lead this project for us pathetic inward thinking can't do's?

I suggest the road to becoming a trustee is long and hard. Even becoming a Delegate is challenging and time consuming.
I am thankful to those beekeepers who give up their time and effort to fill the places.
BUT how many actually truly represent the wishes of the associations they speak for or report back accurately to these associations? How many actively pursue matters on the simple guy with a hives behalf? How many have the management and accounting skills to detect anomalies in reports?
Call it what you will, governance, management etc. Someone should have been noticing the Adopt a Beehive financial situation long before it emerged into the harsh light of day. It's not sufficient to be willing to stand up to the plate - skills, knowledge and character are essential prerequisites.
RANT OVER.

 

[psafloyd]

As a member who lives in a county that prefers to avoid BBKA membership I get no voting rights in the association. I'm sure there are many others in the same situation. OMOV would give members like me some input.

Well, the BBKA could be petitioned to have a delegate to represent all those who don't have an association.