BBKA? maybe not!!

[hedgerow pete]

to one and all who have added to this thread, were as all points of view are wecome and listened to by me. yes evan ranting pete listens. i have made my mind up and turned my back on the bbka over 16 years ago, and i will not becoming back. this will leave a vaccuum, i have tried several times to start something instead of the bbka but was unable to collect enough people together to start and run something else.

i believe the bbka has started to fall apart from the top down and we should either kill it quickly and start again, but without any of the people that were there before, completly remove the head and shoulders, or start something new instead of.

so lets change this thread slighty and ask this question would anyone out there want the same things to happen, or is it just me?

 

[JCBrum]

I can see where you're coming from Pete.

Big changes in orgs like BBKA can only be brought about by the membership.

Either everyone leaves and takes their subs with them, so it dies, ... or .... everyone stays in and demands by overwhelming numbers that change occurs.

Thats why I raised the point about membership and money being automatically fed through from the local assocs.

It seems to me ABSOLUTELY essential that the people who wish to be a member of a local society should have a choice about feeding their money to the BBKA.

There is only one way to make sure the BBKA address the issues and that is to have control of their funds. If you stop their pocket money they'll soon start listening !

JC.

 

[jon]

Hi Jez,
The forum was setup because of the number of BBKA forum members that either got banned from the forum for speaking out against the pesticide issue or had their posts altered doctored or removed without being told why or informed.

Mark I would have to disagree with that. Many of the regulars on the BBKA board at the moment are anti their pesticide policy or at least have serious reservations about it. There have actually been very few people banned from the other forum overall, as far as I know. Of the regulars who post here, how many were banned? I can only think of two, Brosville and V8landy/Jimbeekeeper and in neither case was it for an anti pesticide stance.
If there are others who have been banned because of this, maybe, they could raise their hands and post an explanation, as this is repeated all the time here and I don't believe it to be true. If I have got the wrong end of the stick on this, I will stand corrected. Personally I do not in any way shape or form support the BBKA pesticide endorsement.
Who else was banned?

 

[gavin]

Hi All

I too believe the BBKA pesticide endorsements to be unwise, and not the thing such an organisation should do.

I also believe that the intention was largely to lend encouragement to pesticides that are relatively safe for bees, to favour those over ones that *are* likely to kill bees. Some of the simplistic comments on here about killing bees are a bit misplaced.

Reading Bee Craft, hearing about the things BBKA do, and meeting BBKA folk yesterday it is clear that this is really a minor side-show compared to the other things the organisation does. To the great majority of the membership, it doesn't seem to matter very much whether there is endorsement of bee-friendly insecticides.

Maybe I need to repeat at this point: I think that it is wrong that the BBKA is taking money from pesticide companies. I'm certain that my organisation (the Scottish Beekeeping Association) would never do this.

So, is this an anti-BBKA forum? We seem to have ended up with a BBKA forum that has shed the strife that used to be commonplace there (mostly by voluntary withdrawal, as Jon points out) and has matured into a good place for serious discussion, and a separate forum here that is more chatty and has (mostly) shed the chips on its shoulder about the BBKA. Is that fair?

all the best

Gavin

 

[JCBrum]

Seems good to me Gavin, but you're lucky having the SBA, may we sassenachs (sp?) join too ?

JC.

 

[gavin]

Hi JC

Yes of course - all welcome!

Unfortunately the bee insurance scheme only works for colonies kept N of the border.

G.

 

[jon]

And I'm in the UBKA so neither am I tainted by the erroneous BBKA policy on sponsorship!

 

[Brosville]

started reading into beekeeping about a year ago, and found a very particular attitude on some of the forums that I've never found on others... Mention that you're not too keen on the BBKA's policies, or the use of chemicals in general (even in the politest and most moderate terms) and there are some members who start shrilling that you're a propagandist, and they're sick and fed up with it, and basically, shut up, you're a cretin" - my attitude initially was "what bit them?", and carried on reading, and asking questions.... I've now arrived at a style of beekeeping that suits me, but am still somewhat at a loss to understand the venom with which some people attack others with "non mainstream" choice of hives and management systems.
As for the BBKA, I've got nothing against it per se, if it were what it claims - a society for ALL British beekeepers - I have seen with my own eyes their "anti natural beekeeping" stance, an insistence that top bar hives are totally "beyond the pale". as are their keepers and that they do their utmost to daemonise them, and spread scurrilous nonsense.........
I fully understand the "change from within" argument, in this case it doesn't apply - there are some organisations that represent such reprehensible views and actions that one cannot morally be seen to be associated with them any way (any more than I'd join the BNP, the Labour Party. or Zanu PF)

 

[jimbeekeeper]

Duct tape

 

[gavin]

Hi Brosville

You came on the BBKA forum with excitable and overblown arguments which generally met polite requests from the members (some of whom post here) for a bit of reason on the topic. Sometimes you were met by teasing, cheeky but basically friendly requests to be more open-minded. That was me. You also met robust challenge from Jim Fischer and you turned insulting, refused to apologise and received that ban. I know this to be true because I can still search the forum for the 'Brosville' posts.

So you used the 'politest and most moderate terms' and were met by 'some members who started shrilling that you're a propagandist'? Anyone reading only that post of yours above can tell the truth of the situation.

Best keep off the politics though. Putting the BNP in the same sentence as the Labour Party (and Zanu PF) isn't going to win you friends.

What about the beekeeping - are you enjoying it and is it going well?

best wishes

Gavin

 

[Brosville]

I had a feeling that you'd say that - now go back and actually read what I wrote, not what you seem to think I wrote! Sarcastic, most definitely, forceful. very much so - apposite, in reply to the insults from the other party "knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing environmentalists" etc, most definitely!
I'm thoroughly enjoying my beekeeping -as I've said, I've found a route that suits me, and I've made some good friends along the way - also found a great deal of animosity, to which I've responded with vigour when I've been attacked for daring to speak of chemical-free and natural beekeeping and will continue to do so.

 

[jon]

Hi Brosville.
Glad to hear you are enjoying the bees. That is what it's all about after all.
The BBKA is not anti natural beekeeping or anti top bar.
Naming no names but the people who loathe top bar beekeeping now post here rather than the other place.
The irony is that for a green environmentalist leftie you now have a ban for race related abuse on your internet CV so if I were you I would keep quiet about the BNP. Half of those who post on Phil Chandler's forum are Americans so you would be advised to keep your head down over that issue. I know Jim Fischer was trying to wind you up, but it's never a good idea to draw attention to someone's race or nationality in an argument. It can only get ugly from that point on.
And speaking of race, I saw the photos you posted a few weeks back. Do you think your bees are Carniolans? If they are, you might need to build an annex on to the top bar Hilton.

 

[Brosville]

genuine thanks for the good wishes, but feel I should pick up a point or two - leftie?, AND "racist"....... don't assume that because someone has become aware of problems with the environment caused in no small part by rampant global capitalism, much of which is based in the US of A that they are necessarily "left wing" - I view the excesses of far right and far left policies with the same disgust......
I've pointed it out before, following some deeply obnoxious and hurtful comments about the "UKs dependance" on the US of A during WW2 by a certain party, I countered incredibly moderately by referring to him as a "colonial" - now that may be "country-ist", but it sure as hell isn't racist - up until recently, one referred to Ozzies and kiwis as such with no problems whatsoever - it WAS an accurate description of their country's status in relation to the UK....... the point was about county's dependencies, so I don't think you can get more apposite in choice of mild "rudeness", which is precisely what I wanted to impart................
As regards the bees, i haven't a clue what they are, the photo is deceptive, they are in fact very "black"...

 

[hedgerow pete]

wow.

and i thought the world hated me, brosville any time you need a branch to be strung up on just ask you can come and swing with me.

apart from that i realy must go to the allotment and practise my ranting if i am going to have competition lol

pete

 

[jon]

As regards the bees, i haven't a clue what they are, the photo is deceptive, they are in fact very "black"...

Carniolans are dark with wide bands like yours.
It's quite possible they used to live in Gloucester in a little white correx box.
Make sure they have plenty of space. A swarm can build up and swarm again in the same year. I have seen this with my own, and four colonies I artificially swarmed in May are now making queen cells again.

Did you check if the queen had a Slovenian passport?

Best wishes,
Another colonial (who frequently votes green party candidate)

PS.
I didn't call you a racist. I'm sure you would never stoop so low.

 

[gavin]

Hi Brosville

Sticking to the bee racism for now .... Carniolans are usually dark but with distinctive greyish bands on the segments too.

Native types (Apis mellifera mellifera) are mid brown to dark brown and with a more squat appearance, plus longer 'fur' on parts of the abdomen and have long-lived workers. They also make whiter cappings (leaving an air space below the cappings, which looks good in cut comb).

Carniolans (carnica) are related to Italians (ligustica) but the Italians are the ones with yellowish/orange banding.

Buckfast have yellow banding on the upper part of the abdomen, and greyish bands on the lower part of the abdomen and look surprisingly like some African races (some scutellata types).

Carniolans and Italians make big colonies that do well in a good year but eat a lot of food in poorer conditions. Many Carniolans are very swarmy, and coping with that for a beginner (or others!) can be a challenge. Carniolans are also quite likely to be derived from recent imports, and many of us are concerned that international bee trade is a risky thing to do, health wise.

Molecular studies have suggested that mellifera is part of a Western lineage that has closer affinities to African bees than the Eastern lineage which includes carnica and ligustica. That may be one reason for hybrid derivatives with mellifera being prone to bad temper.

best wishes

Gavin

 

[Brosville]

Thanks for that, I'll keep a close eye on them - they've certainly built at a rate of knots - they've now got 18 bars to play with, from a start of 8 back in May!

Pete may appreciate the fact that my daughter once attended a school called "Ranter's Oak" - may have picked it up there.........

 

[jon]

...the excesses of far right and far left policies with the same disgust

I used to have a friend who wouldn't let you say a word against Josef Stalin and he always described him as a pragmatist.

 

[hedgerow pete]

we always used to say nice things at work ( army ordanance) about hitler, ok so he had his down side and bad points but any one who levels coventry and london cant be that bad surely

ha ha ha ha

 

[BKF Admin]

Molecular studies have suggested that mellifera is part of a Western lineage that has closer affinities to African bees than the Eastern lineage which includes carnica and ligustica. That may be one reason for hybrid derivatives with mellifera being prone to bad temper.

best wishes

Gavin

Thats very interesting Gavin,The sort of thing I like to look into on a winters night.