Balsam

[Otleybee]

I have to say that I continue to be surprised about people wanting to preserve the countryside in some state that existed in the past. It is changing all the time and to do anything other than accept it is futile.

You have actually come on a beekeepers forum and suggested eradicating a plant that is hugely beneficial to bees! Are you suggesting that we regress to a point where the countryside could maintain a different number of colonies of bees?

As for biological control please lets not go there. All of the well meaning scientists regularly screw this up and introduce more problems than the one in hand.

Accept the status quo. Some species die and some thrive and it was ever thus!

 

[madasafish]

We had this debate last year with a very nice young lady who was all for spending our money to erdicate HB. After about 100 posts against, she decided they would not bother - yet. (I suspect their funding ran out)..

I suggest we bring back orchards.. after all 95% of them have closed since end WW2.. But then that's not a popular cause..

Strangely enough when I was a kid, the banks of the Deveron in Banffshire were overrun by Giant Hogweed which has a vicious sap. No-one seriously campaigns to get rid of it..

20,000 yeras ago .. where I write was just emerging from the Ice Age and being colonised by oaks.. Where is the campaign to restore the English oak ? (and eradicate the Spanish one?

Better things to spend time and our taxpayers' money on...

 

[DanBee]

but contact your local wildlife trust and ask if it does no harm

really are the wildlife trusts DEFRA and CABI alll wrong?

Not intended as an incendiary observation, since I can see you're passionate about the subject, but four years ago we were faced with Natural England advising its staff that the honeybee was non-native, out-competed native pollinating insects, and should be actively managed out of NE-managed sites. All based on one dubiously-researched article published by one scientist with a know hostility to honeybees and beekeeping. Thirty years ago Sycamore was branded a 'weed tree' by those who took offence at it, who claimed it played no part in the native food chain, until detail studies were published showing that it was supporting an array of wildlife.

This is an interesting article on the changing attitudes towards non-native species, although I cannot find a free copy of it. I was sent a photocopy by a friend recently.

 

[kazmcc]

I noticed it's rampant by the river, ready to flower anytime soon. My 5 year old told everyone that's what mummys bees like to eat the most....I think my bee bore conversations must have rubbed off on him along the way

 

[cht78]

I think many of you are missing the point......yes the countryside changes, yes species dwindle and new ones thrive.....our enteire coutryside is almost exclusivley managed my man......the point is those who manage it to provide the best possibly biodiversity, believe HB is at odds with that.....

Im not suggesting we spend billions on erradiction ...but ill repeat a situation that sees armies of consevations giving up their time to control it....while I find examples all over the net of beekeepers encouraging it....to be a very strange one.

 

[madasafish]

"Brambles, bracken and ivy threaten British woodland
Brambles, bracken and ivy are threatening the future of Britain's woodland, new research has concluded.

Oak woodland Glais near Neath Wales Photo: AlamyBy Richard Gray, Science Correspondent
8:10AM BST 05 Jun 2011
Comment
The plants, which are native to the British Isles, grow and spread so rapidly that they are choking woods and forests, meaning other species struggle to find enough space and light to grow.

Biologists fear the plants are a major threat to biodiversity in Britain's wooded areas and are potentially more damaging than invasive species that have been introduced to the countryside from abroad.

They say that while millions of pounds are being spent to control these foreign species, little is being done to tackle the spread of these aggressive native plants. ....\"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...racken-and-ivy-threaten-British-woodland.html


Hmm.. Since even biologists can't agree, I find a difference of opinion between beekeepers and a few biologists hardly surprising...

Personally I think lots of these organisations have too much time on their hands and too much money so they are looking to justify their existence... based on their own comments..

 

[chycarne]

As a campaigner for native species- and see my thread for the numbers of beekeeprs who depend on HMB in Corwall we are finding ways of living with it in a managed way as- as was pointed out last year it filled a gap in the year when bees needed food and so on and none was around (ok well very little) i persuaded the local eradicate the invaders people to relook at it. however if it flowers this early then does it go back to being a pest again? curious- please can "we" monitor itcan you let me know how its season progresses? it is amazing how much earlier it is, will it flower twice? remember a weed is mearly a plant in the wrong place... in the right place it is a friend!!

 

[victor meldrew]

I think many of you are missing the point..... coutryside is almost exclusivley managed my man......the point is those who manage it to provide the best possibly biodiversity,.

Are you having a laugh!

More likely those who manage it , manage it to maximise profit ?
Be it the farmer, the game keeper, the market gardener , the golf course owner. Why not the beekeeper.

VM

 

[Swarm]

cht78,
I share your concerns and I certainly wouldn't want to see a situation where vast areas of riverbank and verge completely dominated by Balsam. I must add that as yet, I've not seen any erosion caused by this plant and native species (at least here) seem to be mostly over before the Balsam reaches height and flowering.
I've spoken with others about the problem and they all considered me lucky. I suggested that a good, late flow maybe beneficial but do I want my honey to be predominantly Balsam.
The answer I got is : "Honey is honey."
This is the dilema that faces conservation. When it impacts on pockets, people are less inclined to support the cause. That is no excuse for ignoring the situation either and, as you have already mentioned, the countryside is managed.
I agree with the point that nature and countryside have always been evolving, changing, whether entirely due to mankind or not. To sit back and ignore a situation using that argument, simply because it's always been the case is pretty short sighted. We could argue that pulling weeds in the garden is also a waste of time too, couldn't we?
Talk of actively spreading Balsam is more a casual, off the cuff remark I would say. I'd like to think nobody could be that irresponsible.

 

[victor meldrew]

We could always blame the super markets for applying pressure on the producers to produce more for less . then add more pressure by organising shooting parties to impress with their wealth .Oh! And throw in a couple of golf matches out of the cooperative hospitality account!

VM

 

[Swarm]

"Brambles, bracken and ivy threaten British woodland
Brambles, bracken and ivy are threatening the future of Britain's woodland, new research has concluded.

Oak woodland Glais near Neath Wales Photo: AlamyBy Richard Gray, Science Correspondent
8:10AM BST 05 Jun 2011
Comment
The plants, which are native to the British Isles, grow and spread so rapidly that they are choking woods and forests, meaning other species struggle to find enough space and light to grow.

Biologists fear the plants are a major threat to biodiversity in Britain's wooded areas and are potentially more damaging than invasive species that have been introduced to the countryside from abroad.

They say that while millions of pounds are being spent to control these foreign species, little is being done to tackle the spread of these aggressive native plants. ....\"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/...racken-and-ivy-threaten-British-woodland.html


Hmm.. Since even biologists can't agree, I find a difference of opinion between beekeepers and a few biologists hardly surprising...

Personally I think lots of these organisations have too much time on their hands and too much money so they are looking to justify their existence... based on their own comments..

This comes down to what happens when management is removed. Woodland and common land have historically been cleared and/or grazed. Bramble and bracken would be considerably checked as to not become a problem. The reintroduction of grazing of cattle on common land by my local authority is one initiative being considered. This may prove fruitless due to the reports of people and pets being harmed by the cows.

 

[cht78]

cht78,
I share your concerns and I certainly wouldn't want to see a situation where vast areas of riverbank and verge completely dominated by Balsam. I must add that as yet, I've not seen any erosion caused by this plant and native species (at least here) seem to be mostly over before the Balsam reaches height and flowering.
I've spoken with others about the problem and they all considered me lucky. I suggested that a good, late flow maybe beneficial but do I want my honey to be predominantly Balsam.
The answer I got is : "Honey is honey."
This is the dilema that faces conservation. When it impacts on pockets, people are less inclined to support the cause. That is no excuse for ignoring the situation either and, as you have already mentioned, the countryside is managed.
I agree with the point that nature and countryside have always been evolving, changing, whether entirely due to mankind or not. To sit back and ignore a situation using that argument, simply because it's always been the case is pretty short sighted. We could argue that pulling weeds in the garden is also a waste of time too, couldn't we?
Talk of actively spreading Balsam is more a casual, off the cuff remark I would say. I'd like to think nobody could be that irresponsible.

Thanks Swarm ...that reassuring

 

[kazmcc]

It's starting to flower now where we are, I am not happy about it, and I'm hoping there will be enough forage come autumn. It's my first year so I'm still unsure what they get up to in autumn round here.

 

[VEG]

kaz it normally keeps flowering until the first frosts

 

[kazmcc]

That's good. I don't know how far it goes on round the bend of the stream. I saw the first flowers yesterday, and thought Oh no!

I don't know why I worry about the things......they'll get by without me! All bees did not fail before I became interested lol

 

[VEG]

ahh but hey are all the better with you looking out for them

 

[Flatters]

My colonies at my mother's house bringing balsam today and bees marked with the tell tale white strip. She is about 800metres from a river with Balsam banks.

Bees at home (about 2 miles away) not bringing any in yet but thier source is a stream and old coal spoil land nearly a mile away.

 

[kazmcc]

Balsam has been in flower for a fornight, or there arounds, although our bees are not touching it yet. Obviously got something better on tap.

Last week I was planting in the Gardening Club veg plot at the school, and I have a bed using Caliente Mustard as green manure. It was covered in hbs and bumbles, and we were all working away quite happily. Then a storm arrived. I hid in the shed ( I swear I should have been a bloke lol ) and pottered about a bit. Once the storm passed I went back to my planting and heard a whizz over my shoulder. It was one of the hbs returning after the rain, then it happened again, and again one more time. It was lovely. I must have been right on their flight path. Anyway, they are busy on that right now, so the balsam will have to wait

 

[Poly Hive]

Getting back to beekeeping then....

No HB here yet that I can observe, Rosebay Willowherb in flower and observable quantities of it's pollen in the comb. On the leg it is a lovely dark blue and in the comb it is a dull dark blue almost black.

PH

 

[Swarm]

Balsam in flower but lots of clover here too. Have seen a few 'silverbacks'.