"Asian Hornet" seen in Cornwall

[madasafish]

and that's why our NHS is knackered! people with heart burn calling for an Ambulance!

yes, I would have to be pretty confident that what I had was a heart attack before wasting someones time, as you said 'lack of knowledge' I know early signs of a heart attack, not because I have a pre-existing heart issue but because I have been educated or educated myself.

It's not the end of the end of the world but while the are off on a wild goose chase somewhere else there may be a genuine sighting that they can't get to or are now more reluctant to take seriously.

Or to use your analogy, the patient with Heart burn has now taken up the Ambulance crew and meanwhile someone else is dying from a genuine heart attack.

I am an OAP who has learned his computer skills - esp Google FB etc the hard way.. What ps me off is teh people who are given an address for the meeting and text me asking for a postcode. It takes 30 seconds to find a postcode using google..
I am not saying all cases are like this but I was assured several times by callers about swarms they had checked them against BBKA photos and they were honey bees and in their hundreds. Turned out to be tree bumbles in their tens.
Some people deliberately lie to ensure they get attention.

(almost as bad as me misstyping "the" and ignoring teh spellchecker...

 

[For want of a better word]

I was at Cothele almost exactly a year ago, I am familiar with the toilet block covered in Climbing hydrangea as I spend a good few minutes watching the enormous amount of Bees on it.
I do agree that before crying wolf that the person reporting should be pretty darn sure that they are seeing what they say, its akin to the desperate calls regarding swarms of Honey Bees where the person is positive it's a swarm but after dropping everything, grabbing your kit and driving ten miles post haste to get there only to then discover that they are bumbles or wasps.

In all fairness the European hornets at Cotehele were actively hawking and taking a lot of the other pollinators... watched them for more than an hour this morning.
There was certainly a buzz from the staff and visitors about the" sighting"

One lady asked me if I could show her one of these rare Asian Hawk Moths!!!

I give up!!

Yeghes da

 

[enrico]

and that's why our NHS is knackered! people with heart burn calling for an Ambulance!

yes, I would have to be pretty confident that what I had was a heart attack before wasting someones time, as you said 'lack of knowledge' I know early signs of a heart attack, not because I have a pre-existing heart issue but because I have been educated or educated myself.

It's not the end of the end of the world but while the are off on a wild goose chase somewhere else there may be a genuine sighting that they can't get to or are now more reluctant to take seriously.

Or to use your analogy, the patient with Heart burn has now taken up the Ambulance crew and meanwhile someone else is dying from a genuine heart attack.

Fair comment from someone who is clearly educated in all things. I admit to not being so gifted and can understand how a normal person could mistake one species for another.
I was just suggesting that maybe you could understand that too. But hey, I was wrong. Good debate though so thanks . Carry on the good work!
E

 

[Karol]

I am still of the opinion that monitoring at hives is the way to go. VV requires a massive amount of insect prey to sustain itself. The UK has comparatively low insect densities which IMHO will drive VV to bee hives early on. So suspected sightings at hives should be prioritised over other suspected sightings at other locations especially later on in the season.

 

[birdsandbees]

Fair comment from someone who is clearly educated in all things. I admit to not being so gifted and can understand how a normal person could mistake one species for another.
I was just suggesting that maybe you could understand that too. But hey, I was wrong. Good debate though so thanks . Carry on the good work!
E

No offense intended

 

[enrico]

No offense intended

None taken. Too old for that milarky!!

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I am still of the opinion that monitoring at hives is the way to go. VV requires a massive amount of insect prey to sustain itself. The UK has comparatively low insect densities which IMHO will drive VV to bee hives early on. So suspected sightings at hives should be prioritised over other suspected sightings at other locations especially later on in the season.

On the basis of what I saw at Cotehele on Wednesday and what Cheers saw at the same location yesterday, a significant source of forage for insects will attract hornets. Whilst a bee hive will provide prey in the form of honey bees, the Climbing Hydrangea at Cotehele had far more flying insects around it than can be seen in my apiary.

I recall that one of the SBIs who attended the Tetbury incursion said that they'd found VVs at a site where there was a large stand of ivy, which was attracting pollinating insects that the VVs were killing.

So, whilst an apiary would be a source of prey for Asian Hornets, any other significant source of forage for insects would also attract them.

During this learning period, I think it's important not to get too many fixed ideas about where the invaders might be.

CVB

 

[Karol]

On the basis of what I saw at Cotehele on Wednesday and what Cheers saw at the same location yesterday, a significant source of forage for insects will attract hornets. Whilst a bee hive will provide prey in the form of honey bees, the Climbing Hydrangea at Cotehele had far more flying insects around it than can be seen in my apiary.

I recall that one of the SBIs who attended the Tetbury incursion said that they'd found VVs at a site where there was a large stand of ivy, which was attracting pollinating insects that the VVs were killing.

So, whilst an apiary would be a source of prey for Asian Hornets, any other significant source of forage for insects would also attract them.

During this learning period, I think it's important not to get too many fixed ideas about where the invaders might be.

CVB

That's a fair point. In which case local knowledge will be key but I still think apiaries should form the core of any sentinel system just because they will be least likely to raise false alarms.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

For new beekeepers who may be wondering what all this is about and why the Dad's Army of the Liskeard AHAT got involved, I commend to you the following video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOnb3R2ozz4

This sets out the problems that arose when a beekeeper, Martin Hocking, found what he thought were Asian Hornets in his apiary last year at Woolacombe. You may detect a certain bitterness in his presentation about the way he was treated but I hope the NBU has learned lessons here too.

Quite a lot has happened since then and many Dad's Army volunteers are now available to help the beekeeper who thinks he has seen the invader.

CVB

 

[Stedic]

and that's why our NHS is knackered! people with heart burn calling for an Ambulance!

yes, I would have to be pretty confident that what I had was a heart attack before wasting someones time, as you said 'lack of knowledge' I know early signs of a heart attack, not because I have a pre-existing heart issue but because I have been educated or educated myself.

Off topic but no, this is not why the NHS is knackered. And to be clear, I'd very much prefer you to mistakenly call with heartburn than to miss a cardiac event. Believe me when I say, a discharge from scene if much easier than a full resuscitation (and it probably costs less too).

 

[ShinySideUp]

yes, I would have to be pretty confident that what I had was a heart attack before wasting someones time, as you said 'lack of knowledge' I know early signs of a heart attack, not because I have a pre-existing heart issue but because I have been educated or educated myself.

Be very sure of yourself. I had pains right in the middle of my chest just above the solar plexus for two months, two months of taking indigestion pills and Gaviscon until the doctor insisted I go and have an exercise stress test. I made it to two minutes of the Bruce Protocol (a very slow walk on a slight slope) before they stopped the test and I was diagnosed with angina. One angioplasy [with stent] later during which they block an artery temporarily (and that's how I know what a heart attack feels like) and I'm fixed. That was twenty years ago and I can still remember how uncomfortable a heart problem is.

Don't wait, if you think you are having a heart attack call an ambulance, if you are very, very lucky you will live to regret not calling them earlier.

 

[beebopper]

Off topic but no, this is not why the NHS is knackered. And to be clear, I'd very much prefer you to mistakenly call with heartburn than to miss a cardiac event. Believe me when I say, a discharge from scene if much easier than a full resuscitation (and it probably costs less too).

There are time wasters but this is not a good example as the symptoms can actually be very similar so a better safe than sorry is appropriate.

 

[beebopper]

Be very sure of yourself. I had pains right in the middle of my chest just above the solar plexus for two months, two months of taking indigestion pills and Gaviscon until the doctor insisted I go and have an exercise stress test. I made it to two minutes of the Bruce Protocol (a very slow walk on a slight slope) before they stopped the test and I was diagnosed with angina. One angioplasy [with stent] later during which they block an artery temporarily (and that's how I know what a heart attack feels like) and I'm fixed. That was twenty years ago and I can still remember how uncomfortable a heart problem is.

Don't wait, if you think you are having a heart attack call an ambulance, if you are very, very lucky you will live to regret not calling them earlier.

Glad you were lucky - my father was less fortunate.

 

[mazzamazda]

I am still of the opinion that monitoring at hives is the way to go. VV requires a massive amount of insect prey to sustain itself. The UK has comparatively low insect densities which IMHO will drive VV to bee hives early on. So suspected sightings at hives should be prioritised over other suspected sightings at other locations especially later on in the season.

Agreed, we always see hornets at beehives before anywhere else, usually months before. Only occasionally do we find them crossing roads and flying around although easily spotted. Later in the year when sweet feeding you see them near Ivy or nectar rich plants or around spilt sugar solution around November. Now is the time for sightings around beehives, I would look for bees strangely protecting the entrance in large numbers, more than they would for wasps.

 

[ShinySideUp]

Glad you were lucky - my father was less fortunate.

My condolences. One never knows when ones heart is going to reach beat zero.

 

[youngyoungs]

Just returned from summer vacation near Bayonne and had the privilege of speaking with the local beekeeper in the village, visiting his hives and seeing numerous Asian Hornets (AH). By way of comparison, this summer I have had European Hornets (EH) in my garden in Cheshire.

I've watched the Martin Hocking video and that together with my experiences brought home some stark realities.

1) Beekeepers do need to know what the two hornets look like. After all, if we can't spot the difference, what hope is there for the general public? But, the majority of the time you don't see AH at rest. They are usually on the wing and (for me) comparing the size of AH and EH didn't help. They both look like big flying insects (ie not a wasp or a honey bee). When flying, the EH looks yellow/red and sleek, the AH brown and furry. I didn't expect the "furry" bit. You need more information to be able to positively identify them.

2) It is practically impossible to get a good photo/video of the AH which you could use for identification when they are in flight or hawking near the hives. Martin H tried at length. Use their behaviour and presence to raise your concerns and then trap/stun them to take a better photo for positive identification. They were easily trapped with a sweet solution (beer, sirop de cassis, wine).

3) The efficiency of the AH at picking off bees at the hive was ruthless, and relentless.

Tough times.

 

[Karol]

They need not be that tough. If your friends Bayonne next year were to adopt the Mazzamazda method, they would probably get on top of their problem within a couple of seasons.

 

[Brian Bush]

They need not be that tough. If your friends Bayonne next year were to adopt the Mazzamazda method, they would probably get on top of their problem within a couple of seasons.

Hi Karol
Are you suggesting using the insecticide?custard method of killing nests?

 

[youngyoungs]

I've translated the sticky using Google Translate and will send him the information.

He is a hobby beekeeper and has about 15-20 hives. Last spring he trapped 140 AH queens by his hives, this year the figure dropped to 75. He has a simple bottle trap by each of his hives which he has to empty every 2-3 days because it is full of trapped AH. He thinks he loses about 30% of his bees to the AH each year.

They showed me photographs of an early hornet nest (about tennis ball sized) which was being built in their carport and they destroyed.

During the spring and summer there are so many his wife says you can hear the AH eating, and in particular they seem to love green apples.

His area didn't appear to have any concerted local approach to finding / killing the nests. He is surrounded by thousands of acreas of pine forests and that the nests could be anywhere.

He didn't speak any English and my best O level French (which dates how long ago I learnt it!!) did not have all the vocabulary I needed to converse at more than a simple level.

It was the reality of it all which really surprised me. At our caravan site, I would see 4 or 5 AH a day just flying about (more than any other insect, even wasps).

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I've just read a thought-provoking piece by Andrew Durham (Cambridge BKA) in BBKA News for September entitled "Asian Hornet - The Phoney War".

Andrew recommends selective spring trapping (until the end of May) but he makes it clear that the government has a role to play during this 'phoney war' period. He appears to be recommending legislation or regulation to ensure that responsibility of dealing with hornets is clear and unequivocal and there is an allocated budget to get these measures up and running.

For instance, what happens if hornets nests are found on private land - at present the landowner, if minded, can just ignore it and not incur the cost of destruction - there could be grants made available so that landowners have no financial incentive to ignore a nest. What happens if the nest is on public land - are budgets available to deal with it? Should local authorities be preparing lists of approved contractors to deal with these hornets on a 'schedule of rates' basis?

We have an ideal opportunity to get measures in place before the event so that we do not repeat the mistakes that the French authorities made - he who forgets mistakes of the past is doomed to repeat them.

One of my many worries about an invasion by Asian Hornets is that it might appear that beekeepers are banging the drum out of self-interest. While there may be an element of this, the threat from them is not just to honeybees - all flying insects are at risk so the food source of fish, birds, amphibians, bats, etc. could diminish. The loss of pollinators could eventually impact of our food supply as well as our wildlife.

Might I suggest that anybody who has contacts in French beekeeping tries to obtain samples of Asian Hornets for distribution around their locality. "Plenty of Honey" sent me about 40 dead AHs last year that I placed in cheap plastic containers and gave away to beekeeping groups (and SBIs) in Cornwall and west Devon - PoH has been so successful at tackling the threat in his part of Brittany that there are now no more free samples! We must try to teach beekeepers to recognise these insects instantly.

My own local group has set up an Asian Hornet Action Team to assist with the identification of suspect insects reported by local beekeepers and members of the public and I urge others local groups to do the same.

CVB