Are our bees 'enslaved'

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I had one of those "pretend" police persons tell me on the phone that they couldnt do anything about the car parked across the front of my drive on a dropped kerb because it was a civil matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whereas because the owner had parked there deliberatley to annoy me because I had parked in "his" council controlled parking space, it was in fact a willfull obstruction. In the end the plod told me to move my car or he would arrest me. I put my shoes and coat on but he went for talk with the car owner.. Car didnt get moved because the owner said he had had a drink and I was supposed to go and and ask nicely in the morning if he would move his car so I could get mine out. Instead I used a jack to move my car enough to get it out.
 
so you obviously regard vandalism as a non reportable crime then? So if I came to your house and put bricks through the windows of your car, you would bother ringing the police? I dont know what the police are like where you live but if I rang them and reported a crime like this, they most certainly WOULD come round and follow up on it.

Its a shame people like you have such a low opinion of our police force who do a great job under difficult circumstances.

Look onymee, you obviously missunderstood my Original post and I admit, I over reacted to you Holier than thou attitude. You are obviously one of those people who think you know everything and if I had known you needed 200 smiley's to pick up on the fact that someone was being sarcatsic, just for you, I would have put them in. In fact, I'll go back throught the thread in edit my original comment if it puts your mind at ease.

I think we probably both have a fairly good idea about each other. Please don't trouble yourself putting smileys on my account as I won't be able to see them. Just as in life I will simply ignore anyone I find I am incompatable with and who I just find annoying,and I simply refuse to acknowledge the existence of people I despise, I shall do the same here.Add smileys, don't add smileys, I really don't care.
 
I had one of those "pretend" police persons tell me on the phone that they couldnt do anything about the car parked across the front of my drive on a dropped kerb because it was a civil matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whereas because the owner had parked there deliberatley to annoy me because I had parked in "his" council controlled parking space, it was in fact a willfull obstruction. In the end the plod told me to move my car or he would arrest me. I put my shoes and coat on but he went for talk with the car owner.. Car didnt get moved because the owner said he had had a drink and I was supposed to go and and ask nicely in the morning if he would move his car so I could get mine out. Instead I used a jack to move my car enough to get it out.

Pretend cop had pretend knowledge.
Blocking your drive may well be a civil matter but blocking you in should be of interest to real policeman!
VM
 
I think we probably both have a fairly good idea about each other. Please don't trouble yourself putting smileys on my account as I won't be able to see them. Just as in life I will simply ignore anyone I find I am incompatable with and who I just find annoying,and I simply refuse to acknowledge the existence of people I despise, I shall do the same here.Add smileys, don't add smileys, I really don't care.

Onymee, I apologise. I admit that my posts can be somewhat sarcatsic and childish when I get into my flow. No offence was intended and I'm sorry if I caused any.:sorry:
 
As regards the police and their interest in reported crime, the following is all too believable - even though it is entirely fictional.

How to call the Police...

George Phillips of Meridian Mississippi was going up to bed when his wife told him that he'd left the light on in the garden shed, which she could see from the bedroom window. George opened the back door to go turn off the light but saw that there were people in the shed stealing things.

He phoned the police, who asked "Is someone in your house?" and he said no. Then they said that all patrols were busy, and that he should simply lock his door and an officer would be along when available.

George said "Okay," hung up, counted to 30, and phoned the police again. "Hello. I just called you a few seconds ago because there were people in my shed. Well, you don't have to worry about them now cause I've just shot them all." Then he hung up.

Within five minutes three police cars, an Armed Response unit, and an ambulance showed up at the Phillips residence. Of course, the police caught the burglars red-handed. One of the policemen said to George: "I thought you said that you'd shot them!"

George said, "I thought you said there was nobody available!"

Snopes' page on the above.
 
:D:DA few years ago we had an intruder on the balcony, we were awake at the time and I sat up in bed and reached for the bedside cabinet - for some reason SWMBO shouted no! not the gun!
From the balcony we heard 'Oh F$*^!! and someone jumping down to the lawn and running away. When the bonehead, sorry police cunstubul came and I related to him the story (minus the firearms bit) he looked around the lawn, tucked his thumb into his top pocket, and pointed at our garden railings whilst sucking his teeth and said 'lucky he didn't fall on those spikes or you'd have really been in trouble' !!!!!!!!! needless to say I only used two or three expletives before showing him my warrant card and telling him to b**ger off!

There was a happy ending - later that day a proper brought up in the community copper (now retired) called in and said they'd apprehended the probable culprit but with no evidence they had to leave him go on his way - unfortunately as he cockily strolled away from the police car he slipped and fell (two or three times) and wouldn't be climbing anything for a few weeks
 
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As regards the police and their interest in reported crime, the following is all too believable - even though it is entirely fictional.



Snopes' page on the above.

I actually read a similar story but claimed true on the letters page in the Shooting times a few years back.
 
No no no

You have it all wrong.

Real vegans are against drinking milk.

So they cannot breastfeed their children nor indeed drink milk substitutes.

Encourage them in their beliefs and they will die out.

And if GM crops are ever introduced they will die out even sooner, due to starvation.
 
This is a beekeeper's reply to Vegan's questions...long but extremely correct and useful (IMO). This Document is taken from The Vegan Society web site (www.vegansociety.com ) and is reproduced here to allow me to comment of this rather distorted view of the beekeepers world.

Bees are manipulated worldwide to produce many products for human use: honey, beeswax, propolis, bee pollen, royal jelly and venom. They are intelligent insects with a complex communication system.
• Beekeeper: Agreed

Because bees are seen flying free, they are also often considered free of the usual cruelties of the animal farming industry. However bees undergo treatments similar to those endured by other farmed animals. They go through routine examination and handling, artificial feeding regimes, drug and pesticide treatment, genetic manipulation, artificial insemination, transportation (by air, rail and road) and slaughter.
• Beekeeper: Deliberately emotive language…read on…

Queen for a Year or Two
Queen bees are artificially inseminated with sperm obtained from decapitated bees. Queens are systematically slaughtered every two years because over time their egg producing abilities decline so their whole hive becomes unproductive and uneconomic. In Israel they are killed and re-queened every year.
• Beekeeper: Virtually no hobby beekeepers use AI, I have also never heard of sperm from decapitated bees. “Slaughtering” seems a tad emotive…. It’s a bee not an intertribal African massacre; get some sense of priority please. Good queens are cherished and often kept until the end of their natural lives as their offspring daughter queens inherit their desirable characteristics.

Bees Crushed
When beekeepers manipulate combs many bees are crushed and killed. Hives have smoke puffed into them to calm bees down and make them easier to handle. Special excluders or devices that violate the bees' space are attached to hives to collect bee products from bees as they enter hives. Bees are separated from their hives by being shaken vigorously or jetted out with powerful streams of air. They may have their legs and wings clipped off. Clipping the wings of queen bees prevents them from swarming (flying off!).
Swarming is the natural way for reproduction, increase and survival of the species, at least in the wild. However, beekeepers are constantly trying to prevent this natural phenomenon and will use artificial pheromones, wing clipping and cage queens to keep their colony under control.
• Beekeeper: Beekeepers go to great lengths to avoid crushing bees, the pheromones released causes other bees to get stressed and potentially aggressive. “ Special devices” sounds like torture, the only ‘device’ used by hobby beekeepers in this respect is a queen excluder which causes no stress whatsoever it simply keeps the egg laying queen separate from the upper honey storage area and prevents loss of the queens brood when honey is removed. Bees are not normally ‘separated’ from their hives at all they are shaken gently on a comb by comb basis whilst inspecting the bees, typically when you need to check that they are not suffering from any disease. Clipping wings is like cutting finger nails it is dead tissue and is not a necessity but can be uses to reduce to number of visits and disturbance to the bees when watching out for swarming. “Beekeepers are constantly trying to prevent this natural phenomenon” wrong, this is a seasonal occurrence usually occurring in northern Europe in May-July. Swarming bees cause loss of honey, loss of bees and as bees can no longer survive without a beekeeper then such lost bees are doomed to a nasty death.
Swarm control is part of beekeeping but it is futile to ‘make’ bees do anything, they will do their thing even if that means abandoning hive. Beekeepers need to work WITH their bees and good swarm prevention is fundamentally the art of letting the bees ‘think’ they have swarmed and then they are happy.

Artificial Feed
Beekeepers feed artificial pollen substitutes and white sugar syrup to colonies, often to replace the honey that has been removed. If these practices are carried out over long periods of time they lower hive productivity and lifespan. Colonies fed on their natural food - honey and pollen - result in larger emerging bees and more vigorous bees.
• Beekeeper: Actually it has been shown that the natural crystallization that occurs in many honey’s stored in comb can cause the bees stress and dysentery, due to the need to go out and fetch water to dissolve the crystals during the cold winter weather. Sugar syrup is purer in that sense as it is stable and a reliable source of energy, the bees thrive on it as it contains the correct balance of carbohydrate and water rather than the hit and miss condition of solidified ‘natural’ honey.

Pesticides
Beekeepers have become dependent on the use of synthetic pesticides and antibiotics to combat pests, and this has led to problems of toxicological hazards to beekeepers and bees, and risks of honey contamination.
• Beekeeper: This I believe is based on an occurrence in China where human antibiotics were found in honey. This was resolved some time ago and it is a gross distortion to insinuate that this is a worldwide problem. Varroa (bee parasite) has been traditionally treated with a form of pesticides known as ‘pyrethroids’ in the autumn when there is little nectar source available. This can be used when there is nectar available but beekeepers use good practice and limit its use to the non flowering months. Without such intervention the bees die within 2-3 years. Incidentally beekeepers are moving to IPM techniques due to pyrethroid resistance but so called ‘natural’ treatments such as Thymol are statistically many hundreds of times more toxic to bees than pyrethroids.

Bees Transported
Bees are bought and sold worldwide. Transportation means bees may suffer stress, suffocation, overheating or cold. Many die entombed in their packaged coffins. Exotic bees are transported to strange countries and causing problems in the natural environment by spreading disease. They are subsequently treated as feral and nests are destroyed by pouring petrol in hives or bees killed by spraying with liquid soap.
• Beekeeper: “entombed in coffins”- “strange countries” …please! The hobby beekeeper usually gets their bees locally and is in no position to ship bees all over the world. Queen bees and small colonies can be sent by post with attendant worker bees to look after the queen. It is in no ones interest to cause harm to these wonderful insects and queens are treated as royalty by the awaiting beekeeper.

Moneymaking
In a bid to improve the economics of honey production in South America in the 1950s the government ordered research into the use of the African honeybee. These bees are the most prolific honey producers in the world. Unfortunately, they are also extremely aggressive. All the native bees of South America were stingless but only three species made honey and certainly not in large quantities. Unfortunately, the African honeybees escaped. Thousands of hives of Africanised bees are now destroyed each year in the USA because they have been breeding with and destroying the more docile European honeybees, and they have stung and killed over 600 people.
• Beekeeper: Agreed but let’s get it in context. More people in the same area over the same period have died from dog bites and the beekeepers in South America now prefer their productive bees over their predecessors. It has also hugely boosted income to poor parts of this continent.

Pollination
In many countries bees' services are bought for pollination purposes resulting in the bees (and their hives) being transported hundreds or thousands of miles. The food industry is now looking to artificially managed honeybees to provide to pollinate crops because wild bees and other insects (who would naturally pollinate crops) have been and are being destroyed by housing development, industrial pollution, pesticide poisoning, intensive farming practices, destruction of hedgerows, etc. The use of honeybees for pollination is now big business especially in places like New Zealand and America. However, even in the UK commercial beekeepers move hives (to find sources of nectar for honey production, and for pollination). Pollination fees are a very important component of the commercial beekeepers income. Commercially reared bumblebee colonies are now also extensively used to pollinate some glasshouse crops, particularly tomatoes.
• Beekeeper: Agreed but did you know that the bees shipped ‘thousands’ of miles only by commercial USA beekeepers are not locked in to boxes, the hive entrances are left open and given frequent rest stops and water. Stressed bees are no good at all for pollination or honey gathering and they are assessed for health and strength before use by the pollination seeker and any commercial pollinating beekeeper will not last long without caring for his bees.

Vivisection
Bees are also victims of vivisection and a vast number of experiments are carried out worldwide on these creatures. Unfortunately their generally quiet nature makes the honeybee easily manipulated and it has been claimed that they make an ideal laboratory animal. Many experiments are conducted for research and development into colonies that will produce more honey and thus make more money. In Japan they have irradiated bees to make their sting ineffective in an effort to achieve a 'stingless' bee for easier handling and in Australia trials are being undertaken on a protein in bee venom to treat cancer.
• Beekeeper: As the highest form of insect life that can demonstrate advanced communication and behave as a hyper organism, it is no surprise that they are a favorite candidate for research. This is hardly the fault of the beekeeper; it is man’s natural curiosity.

Health Risk
Honey and other bee products are widely used in folk medicine. However, people with asthma or allergies have been strongly recommended not to take honey or royal jelly after several deaths and severe illnesses. Honey is also not suitable for children under twelve months of age because of the risk of botulism. Bees have been seen drinking from sewage plants and have been known to collect tar, adhesives and paint instead of propolis. Moreover, a nutritional comparison shows that demerara sugar is higher in minerals, such as potassium, calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, iron, copper and chlorine. The somewhat dubious health benefits of bee products do not warrant the use and abuse of honeybees. There are many other non-animal alternative medicines available.
• Beekeeper: Well this is honey stuff sure sound’s dangerous to me, and as for demerara sugar might as well shoot yourself than eat it. Honey is the model of healthy food and has rightly been so for thousands of years, picking up on obscure documented or rumored incidents and suggesting that they are frequent of even normal is grossly unfair.
The reason that botulism is a risk is that the digestive system of babies is under developed, and a botulism spore that would harmless pass through older children and adults could case illness in a baby.
Incidentally you can NOT feed demerara sugar to bees it gives them dysentery as it is actually the dregs of the sugar refinery industry. But then such facts spoil a good story.

Basic Bee Info
The most popular bee for honey production is the European Apis mellifera. In common with all insects it has a brain and several smaller ganglia (sub-brains) running through its body. In proportion to its size, the brain of the bee is very large. The ganglia have nerve fibres connecting them with the sensory endings on the outer layer of the insect. Other fibres carry nervous impulses from the ganglia to the muscles and internal organs, regulating their action.
On average a colony comprises 42,000-60,000 bees and can survive up to 20 years. However, the lifespan of individual bees is very short. Within the hive there are three types of bee: the worker, the drone and the queen. The worker carries out most types of jobs necessary to keep the colony ticking over including cleaning, feeding larvae, manipulating the wax, processing the honey and foraging or defending the colony. Foraging honeybees communicate food sources to fellow foragers by means of the famous "waggle dance" which involves an intricate series of circles and movements. After the first 20 days or so of its life it acts as a forager, or flying bee, collecting nectar and pollen. The life of the worker lasts about 30 to 35 days. As far as is known the drone's only function is to mate with the queen bee, after which it dies. Under wild conditions the queen lives for five years or so. She has two main functions in life: to mate and lay eggs. She is a very important part of the colony because she passes on her characteristics and controls its size by the number of eggs she produces.
• Beekeeper: Close… bee colonies are typically well below 40,000, 60,000 is just fisherman’s tales. Wild (feral) colonies have been known to last for longer than 20 years some have been in church towers for generations. Varroa has put an end to this and only beekeepers can now keep bees alive and in itself makes beekeeping a worthwhile pastime.


The rest of this document is more factual than contentious…I need a drink  …
Bee Statistics
The honeybee will fly about 800km in her working life and produce just half a teaspoon of honey. A queen may produce half a million eggs in her natural lifespan. However, she will only be allowed to live 2 years in the commercial world producing 150,000 eggs annually during this time. In calm conditions the foraging bee will travel at 24 km per hour and up to 40 km for short periods of time and work for 7 - 10 hours a day.
Some 300,000 tonnes of honey are traded internationally every year, and about four times this much is actually produced. The five major honey producers in the world are the formerUSSR, China, USA, Mexico, and Turkey.
Around 22,000 million tonnes of honey is consumed in the UK each year most of which (just over 2 million tonnes) is imported from New Zealand. There are around 40,000 beekeepers in the UK but probably only 320 are semi-commercial or commercial enterprises.

Bee Products
Honey
Pre-digested food made by bees from nectar. The bees collect the nectar from flowers and store it in their primary or honey stomach. Here it is partially digested and converted into the substance we call honey. It is a food source of the bee and is stored in the hive for the lean winter months. The metabolism of honey by the bee creates heat, which maintains the temperature of the hive at 17-34 degrees C. The colony requires approximately 200 lbs of honey a year to survive. It is used by humans as a food, as a medicine and in cosmetics and toiletries.
Beeswax
Secreted from eight small wax glands underneath the abdomen of the bee. The soft wax pours into eight pockets beneath the glands where it solidifies. It is then removed and passed to the mouth where it is worked into hexagonal cells called combs, which are used to form the basic structure of the hive. It is used in cosmetics, toiletries, pharmaceuticals, polishes and candles.
Propolis
A resinous substance gathered by bees from trees. It is used to fill holes, and varnish and strengthen the hive. Bees also use it as a natural antibiotic, antiviral and antifungal agent. It is gathered by humans by either scraping it off the hive or collecting it on specially made frames. It is used as a medicine and food supplement. It is sometimes called 'bee glue'.
Bee Pollen
Collected from flowers and brought back to the hive as a load on the hind legs. It is a food source for the bee and is stored in the hive. A colony requires approximately 60lbs of pollen per year to survive. The collection of pollen involves fitting special traps to the hive. These scrape it off and are just big enough to allow the bee through. Bee pollen is used as a food supplement.
Royal Jelly
This creamy-white sticky fluid is a blend of two secretions from the glands of the worker bees. It is the sole source of nourishment for the queen bee throughout her life. Since royal jelly enables the bee to become a queen, some people believe they can recapture their lost youth by eating it. China, where cost-saving techniques have been devised for gathering it, is a major exporter of royal jelly. Details of methods of collection are a closely guarded secret. It is sometimes called 'bee milk'.
Venom
The sting of the bee. Its collection involves the stretching of an electrically-charged membrane in front of the hive. When the bees fly into it they receive an electric shock and sting the membrane, thus depositing the venom. Venom is prized by some for its supposed medicinal qualities.
 
I provide accommodation for honey bees,
Honey bees have taken up residence of their own accord on quite a few occasions .
I deprive.them of their surplus honey. Surplus because I have facilitated this .
I haven't fed my bees for a year or two ,when I did it was more a case of belt and braces!
Do I feel guilty no .
The bees that produced that honey are long dead.
The Winter bees are adequately provided for and protected against pest, disease and the elements.
They have no feelings for the bees that provided their Winter stores neither have I . It's the cycle of life .
Bees will steal/kill a weaker colony even when good forage is available make no mistake!
VM
 
and dont forget that they play hell with our credit cards in the winter sales.:yeahthat:
 
New excuse for this summer...
That's not a swam from my hives on your hedge, it's a manumission of enslaved workers!
 

Incidentally beekeepers are moving to IPM techniques due to pyrethroid resistance but so called ‘natural’ treatments such as Thymol are statistically many hundreds of times more toxic to bees than pyrethroids.


Thymol more toxic to bees?
 
Beekeepers have become dependent on the use of synthetic pesticides and antibiotics to combat pests

Substitute the word "vegans" for the word "beekeepers". The absolute stupidity with which vegans view the world astonishes me. How do they feed themselves? Soya? Grains? Grown in vast monocultures. How are the said soya and grain plants maintained as a weed-free monoculture? The wholesale use of pesticides. How many insects and animals were destroyed to establish these huge fields? How many won't ever get the chance to live because of the destruction of habitat? Etc etc.
 

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