Are our bees 'enslaved'

[jenkinsbrynmair]

She probably hasn't considered the alternatives. The trouble with a lot of vegetarians and vegans that they don't see the bigger picture. I have debated the issue with plenty of them. I ask if they hate animals because if the world became veggie/vegan overnight there would be no livestock type animals and probably no pets, certainly no pet cats. Dogs could at a push, survive on a vegetarian diet but cats are obligate carnivores. Nobody would keep pet cows and sheep and pigs so they would all die out. Nature is about balance. We need some of everything for the world to survive. Remove several species and you end up with a world which I for one would not like to live in.A human only society is stuff of nightmares. It'd the same with animal rescue zealots. They repeat the mantra "Don't breed or buy while shelter dogs die" and smugly tell everyone that they'd never buy a puppy from a breeder as they don't believe in it. They will only 'rescue' an animal and think that all dogs and cats should be neutered. I then ask if they hate cats and dogs then? They always look surprised and say "no, of course not". I then point out that if everyone neutered all the cats and dogs in the country, within 15 years, there would be no pet cats and dogs. They just don't see the bigger picture.

Following on from there - should all Veggies be neutered?

 

[Sir Quej]

Onymee - if you had actually read my post and understood the point of it (which you obviously didnt), you would have realised that it was a tongue in cheek response to someone who felt the need to try and force THEIR beliefs down a beeks throat.

It isnt an attack on Vegans, vegatarians, muslims, christians, jews, atheists, agnostics..... Or any belief system for that matter. Its an attack on people (like this lady) who think they are right and all others are wrong.

On that subject, your statment that religion is responsible for misery and wars? What a load of crap. The misery and wars you speak of are caused by PEOPLE who claim to follow said relegion, not the religion

As I point out in my post, EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinions/beliefs and I am a strong believer that no-ones opinion is wrong, because it is just that, an opinion (not fact).

So next time you decide you want a ride on your obviously very high horse, you might want to make sure you have picked up on the undercurrent in someones thread post.

Oh and if someone tipped my hives or damaged my car, I would have them arrested and charged with criminal damage, as they would be breaking the law.

 

[madasafish]

Onymee - i
Oh and if someone tipped my hives or damaged my car, I would have them arrested and charged with criminal damage, as they would be breaking the law.

Not if the RSPCA were involved: you would find them spending £300k on legal fees.. ...

 

[Sir Quej]

It's only if they try to impose their views on you that you should push back.

oh, what, you mean sort of like the Vegan lady did for example?

 

[Sir Quej]

Not if the RSPCA were involved: you would find them spending £300k on legal fees.. ...

.?

 

[mbc]

Oh and if someone tipped my hives or damaged my car, I would have them arrested and charged with criminal damage, as they would be breaking the law.

Obviously reasonable force in restraining someone who's tipped your hive over involves hobbling them right next to sayd tipped over hive and possibly having to use their top to tie their hands.

 

[Sir Quej]

Obviously reasonable force in restraining someone who's tipped your hive over involves hobbling them right next to sayd tipped over hive and possibly having to use their top to tie their hands.

Oh no mbc.... Apparently you would have to respect thier belief that they had a right to tip your hives and you would have to debate the rights and wrongs of the vandalism in an adult and educated way.....

Apparently, reacting in a negative way to them vandalising your apiary, means that you have an inferiority complex and anger management issues....

 

[mbc]

Oh no mbc.... Apparently you would have to respect thier belief that they had a right to tip your hives and you would have to debate the rights and wrongs of the vandalism in an adult and educated way.....

Apparently, reacting in a negative way to them vandalising your apiary, means that you have an inferiority complex and anger management issues....

I'd be up for a lengthy debate so long as my recently angered bees were helping punctuate my side of the discussion.

 

[onymee]

Following on from there - should all Veggies be neutered?

ohh that's a bit extreme surely? They should be genetically modified.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Not if the RSPCA were involved: you would find them spending £300k on legal fees.. ...

On a bigoted, unfounded and continued attack on a poor law abiding huntsman all in the name of campaigning for 'animal rights' not exactly what a registered charity should be doing

 

[madasafish]

On a bigoted, unfounded and continued attack on a poor law abiding huntsman all in the name of campaigning for 'animal rights' not exactly what a registered charity should be doing

Never mind the travelling people staging live cockfights etc..

It's a class thing..

(Let alone hare coursing or illegal badger baiting)

 

[onymee]

Onymee - if you had actually read my post and understood the point of it (which you obviously didnt), you would have realised that it was a tongue in cheek response to someone who felt the need to try and force THEIR beliefs down a beeks throat.

oh sorry I must have missed the smileys which would have told me that it was in jest.

It isnt an attack on Vegans, vegatarians, muslims, christians, jews, atheists, agnostics..... Or any belief system for that matter. Its an attack on people (like this lady) who think they are right and all others are wrong.

I think that's called having an opinion.

On that subject, your statment that religion is responsible for misery and wars? What a load of crap. The misery and wars you speak of are caused by PEOPLE who claim to follow said relegion, not the religion

well of course, that's your opinion and you are entitled to it. I'd happily explain why I believe what I said and be more than happy to listen to you explain your side of things.

As I point out in my post, EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinions/beliefs and I am a strong believer that no-ones opinion is wrong, because it is just that, an opinion (not fact).

unless of course you think that they are trying to 'ram it down your throat' or they might dare to voice their opinion?

So next time you decide you want a ride on your obviously very high horse, you might want to make sure you have picked up on the undercurrent in someones thread post.

another hysterical and over the top response to a fairly innocuous post by me. Given that I cannot see your facial expression and body language when I read your posts, and given that I am unable to pick up on invisible undercurrents, I think my reply was reasonable. However, it's become obvious that this word is not within your mind set. We'll have to agree to disagree then

Oh and if someone tipped my hives or damaged my car, I would have them arrested and charged with criminal damage, as they would be breaking the law.

Great for you then. I find it touching that you have such a high opinion of the law and really believe that they would be interested in such a low scale 'crime'. What might be important to an individual is quite low down on the important scale to the majority of policemen I'm afraid.

 

[Dishmop]

I find your aggressive confrontational disrespectful attitude more than a tad disturbing. You don't want someone explaining about veganism or vegetarianism because it's in your face, but you will kill an animal or eat an animal in order to distress someone who holds certain beliefs? Why?

People are quite entitled to their beliefs but why must so many of them rant on so much about them... Its quite adequate to say "I'm a vegan" (or whatever) My thoughts are that people turned to non meat eaters when shock horror they suddenly found out one day where beef/pork/lamb/chicken actually comes from.

Thats enough for me. I dont want to know why they are. If they believe its cruel to milk cows and eat beef I wonder if they have ever considered what would happen to cows if they werent milked and just left in a field as.. what? pets?

but you will kill an animal or eat an animal in order to distress someone who holds certain beliefs? Why

because quite often(but not always) people like that are such annoying people, and they dont listen because they dont want to, and its often the best way to deal with them.. An argument is not an argument if you only express your own view and refuse to listen to the other person.

I wonder how a person who says keeping bees in boxes is cruel would react when told that the only way to remove the swarm of bees from their loft was to kill the bees. Or the rats and mice.

 

[onymee]

Oh no mbc.... Apparently you would have to respect thier belief that they had a right to tip your hives and you would have to debate the rights and wrongs of the vandalism in an adult and educated way.....

Apparently, reacting in a negative way to them vandalising your apiary, means that you have an inferiority complex and anger management issues....

I have looked and looked and can't find any post about someone wanting to vandalise an apiary. Can you share with us who vandalised your apiary and why? That's terrible.Was much damage done? Did you call police?

 

[Dishmop]

What might be important to an individual is quite low down on the important scale to the majority of policemen I'm afraid.

especially if it involves doing some work.

 

[onymee]

especially if it involves doing some work.

indeed. LIke last year when I found 2 hooded intruders on my land at 10pm one dark night. After chasing them with a pitchfork, yelling and swearing at them and telling the dogs to "bite 'em dogs" (golly the hoodies couldn't half shift), and then dialling 999, only to be told not to go outside, to get indoors and lock the door and if any dogs were outside, to just leave them as they are only dogs. When I dialled 999 and in a state of an adrenalin high and I was still swearing, the operator told me she would put the phone down if I didn't stop swearing. So folks, if you are faced with armed intruder, don't get upset and swear when you call the cops. In the end it took the police 45 minutes to get to me, a single late middle aged woman living on her own right out in the sticks and then when the policeman came he refused to go out to check if they were still there as he was on his own. Then the next day when one of the suspected hoodies phoned me to say he'd be coming to kick my effing door in to put me in my effing place, and I dialled 999 again and told them that if the little druggie did indeed turn up, I'd cleave his skull with my wood axe, 2 armed police and one local bobby arrived within 20 minutes to protect him!
Nowadays the police are busy getting hair and makeup done for the television cameras, doing their 2nd jobs, and filling in forms, to do any actual policing. If you phone up saying someone has damaged your car, they'll give you a crime reference number and forget you.

 

[Sir Quej]

Great for you then. I find it touching that you have such a high opinion of the law and really believe that they would be interested in such a low scale 'crime'. What might be important to an individual is quite low down on the important scale to the majority of policemen I'm afraid.

so you obviously regard vandalism as a non reportable crime then? So if I came to your house and put bricks through the windows of your car, you would bother ringing the police? I dont know what the police are like where you live but if I rang them and reported a crime like this, they most certainly WOULD come round and follow up on it.

Its a shame people like you have such a low opinion of our police force who do a great job under difficult circumstances.

Look onymee, you obviously missunderstood my Original post and I admit, I over reacted to you Holier than thou attitude. You are obviously one of those people who think you know everything and if I had known you needed 200 smiley's to pick up on the fact that someone was being sarcatsic, just for you, I would have put them in. In fact, I'll go back throught the thread in edit my original comment if it puts your mind at ease.

 

[mbc]

Nowadays the police are busy getting hair and makeup done for the television cameras, doing their 2nd jobs, and filling in forms, to do any actual policing. If you phone up saying someone has damaged your car, they'll give you a crime reference number and forget you.

You missed the number one priority - nursing a pension and early retirement.
I know a recently retired plod who reckons he managed to spend most of his time on courses (ensuring an even larger pension) rather than actually doing any work !

 

[Sir Quej]

indeed. LIke last year when I found 2 hooded intruders on my land at 10pm one dark night. After chasing them with a pitchfork, yelling and swearing at them and telling the dogs to "bite 'em dogs" (golly the hoodies couldn't half shift), and then dialling 999, only to be told not to go outside, to get indoors and lock the door and if any dogs were outside, to just leave them as they are only dogs. When I dialled 999 and in a state of an adrenalin high and I was still swearing, the operator told me she would put the phone down if I didn't stop swearing. So folks, if you are faced with armed intruder, don't get upset and swear when you call the cops. In the end it took the police 45 minutes to get to me, a single late middle aged woman living on her own right out in the sticks and then when the policeman came he refused to go out to check if they were still there as he was on his own. Then the next day when one of the suspected hoodies phoned me to say he'd be coming to kick my effing door in to put me in my effing place, and I dialled 999 again and told them that if the little druggie did indeed turn up, I'd cleave his skull with my wood axe, 2 armed police and one local bobby arrived within 20 minutes to protect him!
Nowadays the police are busy getting hair and makeup done for the television cameras, doing their 2nd jobs, and filling in forms, to do any actual policing. If you phone up saying someone has damaged your car, they'll give you a crime reference number and forget you.

So to sum up, you came across two innocent people out walking at night, who just happen to have strolled onto your land and because they were wearing "hoodies" you automatically assumed they were armed drug addicts who were going to rape and murder you?

You then proceeded to set your dogs on them and threaten them with a deadly weapon, before reporting them to the police for nothing more than being on your land?

Your then shocked when one of them phones you to voice his displeasure at being labelled a drug addict weapon weilding murderer? And it comes as a suprise when the police react to you telling them you are going to commit murder?

And you have the nerve to bark on about my sarcastic post?

You my dear, are a hypocrite

 

[Drew]

... lots of stuff...

... lots of stuff ...

Come on you two - Get a room!!!