Are our bees 'enslaved'

[madasafish]

Save the animals....eat a vegan, has a better one

Hmm Too skinny..

Lack of protein in the diet.. Mind you if they ate lots of Rosemary and Mint, that would cut down on the use of herbs to flavour the meat...

Where is my spit? A real live roast would be nice.. Probably not enough fat to baste the meat properly.

 

[onymee]

I do like Vegans, but I can never manage a whole one...

you are supposed to eat your vegans. The government says 5 a day. Who am I to argue with the government?

 

[isc26]

It's applying human society values such as slavery or cruelty to make distinctions and that is extending anthropomorphism to areas where it doesn't make any sense.

Best arguement so far.

To maybe add a line. Nature 'that include us' is interconnected and interdependent, the aim is to ensure a sustainable balance, the outcome should be mutual benefit.

 

[BobsBees]

Simple. Explain that if beekeepers did not supply accommodation etc for bees, there would be no bees.

More to point.. No Apples, Pears, Cherries, in fact only limited pollination apart from Wasps and Bumble Bees.
Bob

 

[Skyhook]

you are supposed to eat your vegans. The government says 5 a day. Who am I to argue with the government?

No, no, you've got it wrong, its a government campaign to wipe out minor political parties. You're supposed to eat your GREENS.

 

[richardbees]

Y 2010

Thanks
- glad to see your country hasn't squandered money on wind power

 

[Woeski]

Is it slavery when they do what they want with their time?
I don't force them to visit the flowers........

 

[DanBee]

Thanks
- glad to see your country hasn't squandered money on wind power

Don't confuse lack of generation with lack of investment!

I was surprised to see no geothermal - or is that peculiar to Iceland?

 

[Woeski]

I give them a house, I look after them, feed them as required and make sure they have all they need. And I clean up after them.
It's more like parenting than slavery.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

When I became vegetarian I did consider becoming a vegan as the more morally logical position, but decided it just wasn't practical if I wanted to stay healthy without having to obsess over my nutrient intake. Depending on your point of view, that could make me a hypocrite or (as I prefer) a pragmatist. But I do respect those that go the whole (soya) hog.

.

As I was chomping on my steak the other day, I was complimenting myself on how easy it was to be veggie.

You are what you eat.
Cows eat grass - so cows are grass.
I eat cows. Must be a vegetarian.

Seemples.


Dusty

 

[onymee]

I used to be vegetarian many years ago. It was very difficult to eat a good diet without manufactured food though. When I dropped to 5 1/2 stones, I decided enough was enough. As a vegetarian, I refused to eat anything with gelatine in and if I was vegetarian on the basis that I objected to animals being killed, I could not in all honesty drink milk or eat butter or cheese, because they involved an animal being killed (bull calves).In the end I decided to stop being so self obsessed and went back to eating meat. I am still very fussy though and refuse to buy factory farmed meat.But I can eat more or less what ever I want to eat without having to take supplements or eat processed food. I believe I cannot call myself an animal lover and eat factory farmed meat knowing how it's produced. I am the same with cleaning products and shampoo etc. Nothing I buy is tested on animals. I just believe that unless I am prepared to volunteer my own pets for testing, I should not expect another animal to have stuff forced down it's throat, dripped into it's eyes etc.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I am still very fussy though and refuse to buy factory farmed meat.

Now that's a far more sensible approach well said!

 

[Skyhook]

As I was chomping on my steak the other day, I was complimenting myself on how easy it was to be veggie.

You are what you eat.
Cows eat grass - so cows are grass.
I eat cows. Must be a vegetarian.

Seemples.


Dusty

Well if you put it like that- manure is often spread on fields which then grow grass or crops, so you're actually eating...

 

[Pete D]

Well if you put it like that- manure is often spread on fields which then grow grass or crops, so you're actually eating...

and if you put it like that...........

trials were done in the 70's to see exactly how much s**t (cow pat) a cow would eat on grass before it moved on. Staggeringly it was nearly 30% and they quickly realised that they could dispose of slurry by mixing it back in with silage to a level just below that............., cheaper bulk food

Dunno if that ever happened but I played rugby with a chap that was involved with conducting the trials that were sponsored by some agro feed company............
if only we knew what we ate !

Mind you I had a lovely bit of liver for tea last night done in a stroganoff, which was lovely.

Oh and another question....... off topic..........
has anyone ever heard of a liver curry, or indeed any offal used in a curry.
Sort of Lambs heart Vindaloo, ox heart bhuna or tripe passanda ?
Just wondered....

Pete D

 

[mbc]

Vegetarians are genocidal maniacs, its a fact ! ( well, maybe only in extreme cases, Hitler was veggy)

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Vegetarians are genocidal maniacs, its a fact ! ( well, maybe only in extreme cases, Hitler was veggy)

he also banned hunting - that's another thing he and Blair had in common

 

[nikca]

Half truths, emotive language, immotive statements, sweeping generalisations... pretty much everything an educated argument is supposed to avoid.

I love the fact that it's ok if your tribe has been "respectfully" collecting honey, at altitude, from big bees. I'm not sure which of these facts mitigates the act.

The author does point out during the piece that whilst vegans will not exploit animals, they do exploit plants in the same way. Seems the reason this is ok is lost however...

Anyway, must dash, my spiritual leader says I am not allowed red meat tonight so I best go fishing...

 

[Dishmop]

I could not in all honesty drink milk or eat butter or cheese, because they involved an animal being killed

How many cows/animals were killed for the 2 litre bottle of milk in my fridge? plus the 2 lb of butter and some cheese.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

How many cows/animals were killed for the 2 litre bottle of milk in my fridge? plus the 2 lb of butter and some cheese.

Thanks to the prevalence of TB, and the issues with veal production quite a few.
Let's be honest the end result to all male calves is slaughter - they are either grown on for beef (if they are beef cattle or holstein/fresian beef crosses) or raised on for veal (don't agree with this crating mullarkey but there are more humane systems around now) but at least they have some kind of life before they are slaughtered.
But if there is a TB standstill on the site, they cannot be sold on so it's a quick bullet to the forehead and then either rendered down or sent to hunt kennels (although their nutrition value is not much)
Just checking my records now and on just one farm in our area: 2010- 145 calves 2011- 99 (restrictions liflted so some were sold for veal) and 50 calves to March last year (haven't totted up the bill any further)
There is another one in our area with the same kind of turnover but these are the only two I keep records on, the rest just give a lump sum donation to the hunt for our services.
On a farm that breed pure dairy breeds all the males are waste, and there's only so many 'new' females you need.
Again, it's the obsession with yield and productivity - big milk yielders don't make good eating I know of one farm further West that has a traditional dairy herd of Herefords - all surplus calves can then be grown on for a good beef yield - they make a decent living, the best of both worlds.
But wait until a few more of these American style super dairy farms get built then you realise how little the yanks care about animals in general - it's horrific

 

[Skyhook]

How many cows/animals were killed for the 2 litre bottle of milk in my fridge? plus the 2 lb of butter and some cheese.

If you take an average lactation as 10,000 litres, assume no waste and no twins, and 1 in 5 calves kept for replacement, your 2 litre bottle would cost 0.00025 of a life.