Are our bees 'enslaved'

[victor meldrew]

Incidentally beekeepers are moving to IPM techniques due to pyrethroid resistance but so called ‘natural’ treatments such as Thymol are statistically many hundreds of times more toxic to bees than pyrethroids.


Thymol more toxic to bees?

Not at the dilutions used.
Check your medicine chest and read the ingredients on lots of the patent off prescription brands !
VM

 

[madasafish]

Beekeepers have become dependent on the use of synthetic pesticides and antibiotics to combat pests

The absolute stupidity with which vegans view the world astonishes me. How do they feed themselves? Soya? Grains? Grown in vast monocultures. How are the said soya and grain plants maintained as a weed-free monoculture? The wholesale use of pesticides. How many insects and animals were destroyed to establish these huge fields? How many won't ever get the chance to live because of the destruction of habitat? Etc etc.

Humans grew their large brain allegedly by meat eating.

Maybe Vegans are regressing?

 

[sunhivebee]

Humans grew their large brain allegedly by meat eating.

Maybe Vegans are regressing?

Oh dear. Such readiness to attest stupidity and regression to others.

I have just had a meal with a vegan friend (no doubt I shall be regressing) .... it encompassed, for your peace of mind: courgette, garlic, tomatoes. wheat etc, all grown biodynamically on a mixed farm a mile down the road.
Very nice!

Wishing you all the best for your own progression - how about - rather than indulge further in these neverending anti-vegan rants - writing to the Vegan Society with some constructive suggestions as to how they might correct some of the misguided beekeeping conceptions on their website? They make a few valid points there, but are obviously, as yet, blissfully unaware that there are beekeepers around who do not constantly clip queen bee wings and rob royal jelly etc. And the valid point someone else made on this thread, that bees would have been in a very sorry state without beekeepers helping them out last year, would also be worth making.

Heidi

 

[victor meldrew]

If someone wishes to be vegetarian fair enough!
If someone wishes to be Vegan fair enough .
If someone feels the need to elevate their dietary preferences to religious fervour fair enough.
It's the missionaries I object to !
VM

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It's the missionaries I object to !
VM

well, I couldn't eat a whole one - not in one sitting anyway

 

[drumgerry]

Oh dear. Such readiness to attest stupidity and regression to others.

I have just had a meal with a vegan friend (no doubt I shall be regressing) .... it encompassed, for your peace of mind: courgette, garlic, tomatoes. wheat etc, all grown biodynamically on a mixed farm a mile down the road.
Very nice!

Doesn't biodynamics use animal dung as a central part of it's method? Anyone who thinks veganism is a sustainable way to feed the world is living in cloud cuckoo land.

 

[victor meldrew]

well, I couldn't eat a whole one - not in one sitting anyway

They usually come in groups with kids in tow
VM

 

[Dishmop]

They usually come in groups with kids in tow

Greater Common Chav.

 

[sunhivebee]

Doesn't biodynamics use animal dung as a central part of it's method? Anyone who thinks veganism is a sustainable way to feed the world is living in cloud cuckoo land.

Yes, I am sure you are right, but I am not aware that vegans preach the non-existence of animals, and if they did, I would agree to defining that as stupid; but not on the evidence so far.

 

[sunhivebee]

"living in cloud cuckoo land", a lovely land to live in as a beekeeper, I find. My sun hives are pure cloud cuckoo land stuff, floating 2 metres above the ground away from mouse land ...and slugs.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

how about - rather than indulge further in these neverending anti-vegan rants - writing to the Vegan Society with some constructive suggestions as to how they might correct some of the misguided beekeeping conceptions on their website? They make a few valid points there, but are obviously, as yet, blissfully unaware that there are beekeepers around who do not constantly clip queen bee wings and rob royal jelly etc. And the valid point someone else made on this thread, that bees would have been in a very sorry state without beekeepers helping them out last year, would also be worth making.

Heidi

Not a bad idea Heidi - doubt it will get us anywhere, but you never know until you try - It's O.K. to say they are wrong, but just maybe they are are simply misguided, It's up to us to set them on the right path. And as you say - bees would have been in a right old state without us the last few years

I have just had a meal with a vegan friend (no doubt I shall be regressing) .... it encompassed, for your peace of mind: courgette, garlic, tomatoes. wheat etc, all grown biodynamically on a mixed farm a mile down the road.
Very nice!

Sounds OK to me - even better as a nice accompaniment to a nice free range pork chop or a spatchcocked and marinaded chicken cooked under a brick like Mrs J prepared for me earlier.

 

[sunhivebee]

Originally Posted by heidiherrmann
how about - rather than indulge further in these neverending anti-vegan rants - writing to the Vegan Society with some constructive suggestions as to how they might correct some of the misguided beekeeping conceptions on their website? They make a few valid points there, but are obviously, as yet, blissfully unaware that there are beekeepers around who do not constantly clip queen bee wings and rob royal jelly etc. And the valid point someone else made on this thread, that bees would have been in a very sorry state without beekeepers helping them out last year, would also be worth making.

Heidi
Not a bad idea Heidi - doubt it will get us anywhere, but you never know until you try - It's O.K. to say they are wrong, but just maybe they are are simply misguided, It's up to us to set them on the right path. And as you say - bees would have been in a right old state without us the last few years

OK, I will write them a nice email and will try my best to convince them that we're not total ogres ..... shall also ask what perfume the lady was wearing whose apparition started this thread.

 

[Skyhook]

Glad to see someone pouring oil on troubled waters. I was looking forward to picking up this thread for some serious debate- I cant believe what thoughtless vitriol it has descended to!

Also interesting that the most violent reactions are from meat-eaters, apparently as a reaction to having vegan views forced on them (ie expressed).

If anyone wants to put forward a considered argument against vegetarianism/veganism, I'm here.

If you just want to shout and threaten I'll leave you to it.

.

 

[drumgerry]

I thought my point about vast mono-cultures sustaining vegans' foods of choice was very well considered actually. I'd be interested to hear a considered argument in favour of that.

 

[sunhivebee]

Glad to see someone pouring oil on troubled waters. I was looking forward to picking up this thread for some serious debate- I cant believe what thoughtless vitriol it has descended to!

Also interesting that the most violent reactions are from meat-eaters, apparently as a reaction to having vegan views forced on them (ie expressed).

If anyone wants to put forward a considered argument against vegetarianism/veganism, I'm here.

If you just want to shout and threaten I'll leave you to it.

.

I hope not to have engaged in vitriol (not sure I get the oil on troubled waters metaphor) and seriously intend to write to the vegan site, as some of the things they say about beekeeping are in my view a little misguided. Other points they make about certain practices favoured by beekeepers are worth exploring, I reckon. But as the chances of considered debate of the subject are rather slim by the record so far, how about a new thread on the possible aggression-, resp. tumescence inducing effects of excessive meat consumption? Or should we discuss, perhaps, whether living with bees has potential to broaden one's mind?
I think vegetarians get stung less. I'd like to run tests. I will run tests. Will report in due course.

Oh yes, and a propos perfume - I am convinced that the bees don't mind it, it's just one of these crazy notions perpetuated in all the books bees don't read. What they do not like is cheap perfume and fear sweat, so I stick to "Joy" by J... P.... and prefer not to eat animals. Vegan and vegetarian are funny labels, how would people who eat meat like to be referred to as animal eaters. No more violent reactions please

 

[pargyle]

Originally Posted by heidiherrmann
how about - rather than indulge further in these neverending anti-vegan rants - writing to the Vegan Society with some constructive suggestions as to how they might correct some of the misguided beekeeping conceptions on their website? They make a few valid points there, but are obviously, as yet, blissfully unaware that there are beekeepers around who do not constantly clip queen bee wings and rob royal jelly etc. And the valid point someone else made on this thread, that bees would have been in a very sorry state without beekeepers helping them out last year, would also be worth making.

Heidi
Not a bad idea Heidi - doubt it will get us anywhere, but you never know until you try - It's O.K. to say they are wrong, but just maybe they are are simply misguided, It's up to us to set them on the right path. And as you say - bees would have been in a right old state without us the last few years

OK, I will write them a nice email and will try my best to convince them that we're not total ogres ..... shall also ask what perfume the lady was wearing whose apparition started this thread.

I emailed Noah Lewis some time ago - he was the originator of the site where all this Vegan anti-honey nonsense started - my email was just a very polite one pointing out that many of the points he made were not based on fact. I didn't get a response, didn't even get an acknowledgment ....so you may probably be wasting your time ... the blokes on an ill-informed crusade, I doubt he'll take any notice ... best of luck, perhaps he'll listen to you as you have some higher profile eco/bio credentials.

He seems to be one of the world's 'I'm right and you're wrong' brigade - there's a few of them around on this forum as well !

Phil

 

[sunhivebee]

Phil, thanks, I will give it a go, anyway, thanks for the name. I do think it's a shame that some of the stuff on the site reflects badly on vegans, but maybe it is also a lesson for us not to extrapolate from strange statements on one website and allow that to inform our views on people who make their own very personal life choices. - As for my eco credentials, they will be ruined I guess as I have just been profiled as "bee whisperer" in a recent Telegraph article. Anticipate an interesting discussion on "bee whispering" next, when it gets discovered.
Heidi

 

[Hivemaker.]

As for my eco credentials, they will be ruined I guess as I have just been profiled as "bee whisperer" in a recent Telegraph article. Anticipate an interesting discussion on "bee whispering" next, when it gets discovered.
Heidi

I hope the article is kinder than some i have seen in bee journals.

 

[pargyle]

Phil, thanks, I will give it a go, anyway, thanks for the name. I do think it's a shame that some of the stuff on the site reflects badly on vegans, but maybe it is also a lesson for us not to extrapolate from strange statements on one website and allow that to inform our views on people who make their own very personal life choices. - As for my eco credentials, they will be ruined I guess as I have just been profiled as "bee whisperer" in a recent Telegraph article. Anticipate an interesting discussion on "bee whispering" next, when it gets discovered.
Heidi

Oh no ... here we go again ... just when I thought the furore over Julia Bradbury getting stung had subsided... we'll be off topic faster than you can throw cow dung at a crystal !! I thought the Telegraph may be a lesser spotted daily, rarely seen on this site ...

 

[sunhivebee]

Ah, here we are, late-nighters. Feel free not to create or participate in a furore, I consented to an interview, and my "quotes" have been absolutely correctly represented, the article was written by a beekeeper, and very well indeed, and I hope you will, if you see it, find some things in it with which you can agree. Needless to say that the "bee whisperer" bit was NOT one of my quotes. - Rather than take it as a provocation of furore, it could be taken as a challenge to exercise tolerance. I consider myself a good beekeeper, albeit on a never-ending learning curce and recommend my approach, needless to say. Is that provocative? Are crystals provocative? Or are we all here to learn from one another?