Apis mellifera mellifera

[madasafish]

So somone claims to have a 100% pure colony and it's tested by by no-one known, non scientifically and no details exist.

Sounds like another story suitable for children as in Jurassic Park...

Seriously , you can't expect to be believed with a story as thin as that! It may be true..but...

 

[rook66]

It is worth having a look at the dark amm queen on bid for bees right now. Is this what they look like??

 

[greatbritishhoney]

To be honest, darkness is not really a good indicator of AMM. I had a very dark colony with a nice dark queen who scored 0% on the wing morph test.

 

[Headnavigator]

It is worth having a look at the dark amm queen on bid for bees right now. Is this what they look like??

No. If you look under the picture it says,
"Photo Not of dark bee just a nice pic"

 

[Crg]

To be honest, darkness is not really a good indicator of AMM. I had a very dark colony with a nice dark queen who scored 0% on the wing morph test.

and as has been pointed out many times on this forum, wing morph tests are not really a good indicator of AMM.

Genetics are more than chitin deep.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

and as has been pointed out many times on this forum, wing morph tests are not really a good indicator of AMM.

No, but they are a good starting point.

 

[DanBee]

To be honest, darkness is not really a good indicator of AMM.

Indeed. In the fashion for "native black british bees" people seem to have ignored what was written about them, basing their judgement on pre-conception rather than fact. Beowulf Cooper, for instance, noted that whilst the northerly native stocks were indeed black, the southerly stocks were noticeably lighter - he used the term "brown". So some of the surviving native stocks will be brown not black, and if you breed for black you're actually throwing away variations of the native genes, however well-intentioned...

 

[keith pierce]

>To be honest, darkness is not really a good indicator of AMM

Yes. But we do know that yellow queens and bees are a bad indicator of amm and going in the total wrong direction.





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[greatbritishhoney]

True Keith, but I think we have to be careful of this trend of people selling bees / queens as "nice dark bees" as though they are AMM, without having done any form of testing. It's a bit misleading and it doesn't do the AMM cause any good IMO.

 

[madasafish]

So far it sounds more like snake oil than reality to me.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

So far it sounds more like snake oil than reality to me.

I think most aspects of beekeeping are a bit more like witchcraft than science to be honest

To expect amateur beekeepers to produce DNA test results at the drop of a hat is a bit unrealistic. Although I appreciate your point that scientifically proven "true AMM" examples are probably a bit thin on the ground.

 

[mbc]

I think most aspects of beekeeping are a bit more like witchcraft than science to be honest

To expect amateur beekeepers to produce DNA test results at the drop of a hat is a bit unrealistic. Although I appreciate your point that scientifically proven "true AMM" examples are probably a bit thin on the ground.

Well said

 

[Crg]

>To be honest, darkness is not really a good indicator of AMM

Yes. But we do know that yellow queens and bees are a bad indicator of amm and going in the total wrong direction.

Not necessarily.

 

[Crg]

No, but they are a good starting point.

Depends whether you want to have a bee that looks like the way you want, or whether you actually think preserving any last remnants of the native bee is a good idea.

 

[Crg]

Indeed. In the fashion for "native black british bees" people seem to have ignored what was written about them, basing their judgement on pre-conception rather than fact. Beowulf Cooper, for instance, noted that whilst the northerly native stocks were indeed black, the southerly stocks were noticeably lighter - he used the term "brown". So some of the surviving native stocks will be brown not black, and if you breed for black you're actually throwing away variations of the native genes, however well-intentioned...

Exactly, that also applies to measuring any other "look" you might want.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Depends whether you want to have a bee that looks like the way you want, or whether you actually think preserving any last remnants of the native bee is a good idea.

What would you suggest as a starting point then Crg?

Irrespective of whether you have any desire to propogate AMMs there has to be a first test to check the likelihood of having the right characteristics before moving on to more in depth testing.

 

[Hivemaker.]

What would you suggest as a starting point then Crg?

Irrespective of whether you have any desire to propogate AMMs there has to be a first test to check the likelihood of having the right characteristics before moving on to more in depth testing.

I believe there are some preserved in amber.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

I believe there are some preserved in amber.

 

[Crg]

What would you suggest as a starting point then Crg?

I would suggest as a starting point for people to get a little more scientific about the whole thing.

Also I would suggestion that maybe spending money setting up proper programs like other countries (Switzerland for example), rather than using it to give bees away to new beekeepers in Lancashire.

 

[Crg]

I believe there are some preserved in amber.

Aren't they more orange-yellow in colour rather than black though?