Another Nuc to BB scenario?

[dickbowyer]

Have very active hive, bees on 8-9 frames and looking to do shook swarm soon(ish) as great weather here in Sussex and loads of bloom to get onto new foundation as frames are very old > 4yrs old and to reduce varroa (did OA treatment jan BTW). Have overwintered nuc with 2010 queen on similarly old frames and want to get onto new foundation. Thought to put 5 nuc frames in bb with dummy boards and then new bb with foundation above and feed but had negative advice! Novice question but could I put the excess "bee free" broad frames from shook swarm old bb in with nuc frames to build up nuc bee numbers prior to bailey comb change? Be gentle I am only a novice!

 

[Poly Hive]

The phrase "very old" referring to brood frames to me refers to 50 yrs+

I have never done a shook swarm for a comb change and frankly I canna see myself doing it. It may work in the sunny south but is it advisable further north?

Discuss.

You say your colony is strong covering x frames of combs. Sorry but this is meaningless.

If you tell the forum your colony has x frames of brood, at x% of brood per frame then you are imparting serious information.

PH

 

[VEG]

If I have got it right you are wanting to give back, the very old frames that you are trying to get rid of back to the bees?
It is still very early in the season to be doing something as drastic as a shook swarm. If you damage the queen in the process there wont be much chance of a new queen mating yet as there are not many drones about.

 

[oliver90owner]

This is all wrong.

Oxalic acid treatment followed by further 'varroa treatment' after just a couple of months, and just because the weather is good, you intend to do a shook swarm?

Justification, as far as I can see is simply not there.

Bailley change, KISS principle at work. Don't try to run before you can walk is my advice.

RAB

 

[Poly Hive]

Canna agree more.

PH

 

[dickbowyer]

PH

Not sure they are strong, just far more active than other 2 hives + nuc and looking in through glass quilt, bees are visible on all but outer 2 frames. Will do inspection shortly once feels warm enough - was 16 degree C here today on sunny south coast

Dick

 

[dickbowyer]

Ok, thanks for shooting me down again. How do I get a Nuc with old frames (as that was all I had to make up nuc box at the time from some old 2nd hand hives) into a bb on new frames of foundation this year?

 

[Poly Hive]

Neither of us are shooting you down.

We are trying to give you a pointer or two, ie have a re think, to help your bees.

Sorry if your ego feels a twang but you said they were strong, and now you are telling us that you have seen them through a glass quilt... "and looking in through glass quilt, bees are visible on all but outer 2 frames" so 9 frames in bonny sunny weather but...

Given my last post can you see where the issue might be?

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

I am very sorry but you seem to me to be a fine example of what not to do as a new beek.

I note:old frames........ from some old 2nd hand hives

A real no-no, as far as disease is concerned.

You wanted to increase a nuc by 200%, space-wise (ie 100% to 300%), when adding a couple frames of foundation (40% increase) would be more than enough and is the well documented method. Particularly at this time of the season.

Now you want to shook swarm a colony, whose strength is unknown, for no better reason than changing the comb.

Please just stick to the simple manipulations and try to avoid at all costs using frames of (probably) unknown provenance.

Your bees and your beekeeping would both benefit from using the simple, safer techniques.

RAB

 

[dickbowyer]

I suspect I am not making myself clear. I bought 2 hives in May last year that had not been "spring cleaned for a while", probably nothing done for over a year, the frames all very stuck together and very dark and unable to see the light through the frames when held up the sun. One hive appeared Queenless in July/August (aggressive +++ and no brood/eggs) after many weeks and uncertain test frame results with the help of mentor and bee inspector. So bought local queen and made up nuc with frames from troubled hive with a view to combine before the Autumn. As I was about to combine, found laying Queen in the hive and now Nuc has come through the winter with flying bees and pollen going in. My problem is how to get this nuc built up into a hive with fresh frames and the other hives on to fresh comb to make 3 in total. Did treat with OA in January. I understand that doing a full comb change is now best practice and therefore want to do the best for the bees under my care. The "queenless" hive which appeared "weak" is now the one with the one with the most activity see beecam http://dickbowyer.camstreams.com and most spread of "activity" across 9 frames through glass quilt in day time. Not inspected yet as I did not want to disturb whilst still a bit chilly.

 

[drex]

Not inspected yet as I did not want to disturb whilst still a bit chilly.

Hi Dick, I am a newcomer too, but cannot help thinking, why not wait until after you have been able to do a full inspection, and see what the bees need you to do. Last year I made many plans, only for the bees to force me to alter them, or if I did not listen to the bees, to take no notice of my good intentions anyway.

It is still very early, and the weather could turn very cold again. My mentor always is so laid back and his favourite phrase is " and all will be well". Now trying to adopt more of that relaxed stance myself, but it is so difficult as I am so keen and want to move on. Time takes time.

Best wishes and enjoy

Des

 

[oliver90owner]

I suspect I am not making myself clear.

Obviously makes two of us, at least.

Bailey change for full colonies. Reserve shook swarms for varroa reduction or perhaps EFB, when you are more experienced or simply have to. KISS principle in operation.

Two frames of foundation for the nuc, into a full hive with a divider board. KISS principle in operation. Add more foundation as required for normal expansion of a nuc to a full sized hive. The old frames can be worked to the edges and removed later. Absolutely standard procedure in all(?) the decent tomes. No need to complicate matters. Don't try to run before....

KISS principle in operation every time. Beekeeping is simple most of the time. No need to complicate it unecessarily (and I would strongly advise against you getting a Snelgrove board at this time). Follow the books - they give simple instructions on how to do it.

Sorry but you are the problem - there is no problem at all with the bees!

RAB

 

[nottingham]

I think what the members are trying to say is, that you are making it a bit complicated for yourself.

There are many ways that you could add new frames with new foundation. Without shaking them all off. Yet it would probably best to do nothing for the moment.

When it gets warmer and the bb is full brood and the bees are starting filling the super at night too. You could add a new bb with the new frames and foundation in and put it on top of the bb they are in now. Making sure the queen is in the new bb and a queen excluder is in place to make sure she is not able to lay brood in the old frames.

Just an idea.

Duncan

 

[Hughesie]

Ok, thanks for shooting me down again. How do I get a Nuc with old frames (as that was all I had to make up nuc box at the time from some old 2nd hand hives) into a bb on new frames of foundation this year?

And I was getting the impression it was just me .

Next you will be told it's the way you are interpreting the post !

 

[dickbowyer]

Thank you all for advice

 

[oliver90owner]

Hughsie,

And I was getting the impression it was just me .

Next you will be told it's the way you are interpreting the post !

Maybe if you actually contributed to the thread your input might be positive. I agree wholeheartedly of the comments made in your direction by Poly Hive, yesterday evening.

 

[Hughesie]

Hughsie,

And I was getting the impression it was just me .

Next you will be told it's the way you are interpreting the post !

Maybe if you actually contributed to the thread your input might be positive. I agree wholeheartedly of the comments made in your direction by Poly Hive, yesterday evening.

Couldn't give a flying F*** what you and your mate think ,

 

[Rosti]

Couldn't give a flying F***

A very well spotted but some what stretched metaphore for a bee forum!

Flying Fiat
Flying Fuji
Flying Funk?

All are valid; I'm sure that's what you meant.

Personally I've always thought the Fuji FA200 to be a very sweet 2 man craft.

 

[BKF Admin]

Threads like this can get out of hand fast when an issue between members is not conected with the thread itelf but another thread that has caused problems.

I am aware that certain member/members are not happy and the best thing to do is contact me to sort things out rather than play forum ping-pong.

Mark.

 

[dickbowyer]

Wish I had never asked the question! - did not mind criticism and very happy to receive advice especially when asking a bit of an off the wall question.