Dumb meter, dumb company

[Gilberdyke John]

As far as I'm aware all the electricity suppliers have been told that they have to get a given number of connections (80%?) switched to smart meters or be fined (which happened to a number of them last year).

We don't have one, in part because the mobile coverage around here is very poor, but also our meter is in the cellar where the stone walls of the house are several feet thick. There's very little chance of a signal from anything getting down there. I haven't even installed Faraday cage in the meter cupboard

Actually there are two (one fairly petty, I admit) other reasons that we won't have one. The petty one is because of the deceitful ways they've repeatedly tried to get one installed. For example, they'd phone up and say something like "We want to confirm your appointment to have your smart meter fitted", as if I'd already asked for it to be done when I hadn't. The other is that I see no value to me in it. It will not save me money by reducing my electricity consumption because we use what we use. It's not like we "waste" it to start with. If I wanted to reduce our bills any further I'd need metering per circuit, for example for each MCB. Now that actually would be useful.

James

Individual circuit metering is perfectly possible but how much do you have to spend?

 

[robmort]

A lot of ignorance here, and of course wild conspiracy theories.

 

[rossbyjove]

As far as I'm aware all the electricity suppliers have been told that they have to get a given number of connections (80%?) switched to smart meters or be fined (which happened to a number of them last year).

We don't have one, in part because the mobile coverage around here is very poor, but also our meter is in the cellar where the stone walls of the house are several feet thick. There's very little chance of a signal from anything getting down there. I haven't even installed Faraday cage in the meter cupboard

Actually there are two (one fairly petty, I admit) other reasons that we won't have one. The petty one is because of the deceitful ways they've repeatedly tried to get one installed. For example, they'd phone up and say something like "We want to confirm your appointment to have your smart meter fitted", as if I'd already asked for it to be done when I hadn't. The other is that I see no value to me in it. It will not save me money by reducing my electricity consumption because we use what we use. It's not like we "waste" it to start with. If I wanted to reduce our bills any further I'd need metering per circuit, for example for each MCB. Now that actually would be useful.

James

Exactly the same thing here.
Tried strong arming us to have one. Neither my partner or I respond to this sort of stuff politely.
Why do we need one what are the benefits ? They could not give us any reason or benefits.
That would be a no then. We are usually hundreds of pounds in credit. So not using that much anyway.
Our house is too old for a water meter.

 

[Sutty]

I'd need metering per circuit, for example for each MCB. Now that actually would be useful.

James

If you just want to monitor a few individual appliances a lot of smart sockets provide this, either the wall mounted or plug in types.

 

[Sutty]

And chargers are a dilly at that, most people have no idea of what is required to charge at speed. Coolers on chargers is the first clue. Am I right in thinking that your view is based on the wider potential increase in draw as more chargers come into being rather than just within the supply of a single home ? Complex it is.

Not really as losses in the high tension lines eg pylons are much lower proportionally, relatively low current due to high voltage and it's the current and resistance which determines the losses rather than the voltage. This is why they use HT.
The load on an individual substation may be an issue, but I'd bet voltage-dropping losses are in the much smaller cables close to customer premises (smaller cable = higher resistance = higher losses for a given current).

 

[Murox]

I have never heard of that happening and I am on loads of forums

Nor had I, just relaying what the engineer said about it, it might only be relevant to more rural locations who knows.

 

[Murox]

Seems unlikely/impossible. The meter does exactly that - it meters the current flow (and probably voltage) to determine the electricity going to the consumer unit. The consumer unit then feeds multiple circuits in the house.
The only way I can see an issue is if there is a problem with your supply and a heavy load for an EV charger reduces voltage too much for some appliances to cope due to excessive resistance in the supply line. Shouldn't happen.

I've got no idea, probably just flannel from the engineer.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I've got no idea, probably just flannel from the engineer.

Most meter swappers aren't engineers. Most of them have been on a couple of days course, given a kit and sent out into the world. The one that came to me was a rare beast, having been a long term network employee and knew what he was doing beyond the absolute basics. It was refreshing to chat with him as he worked. (And secretly assess his abilities - he passed!)

 

[Macbear]

Most meter swappers aren't engineers. Most of them have been on a couple of days course, given a kit and sent out into the world. The one that came to me was a rare beast, having been a long term network employee and knew what he was doing beyond the absolute basics. It was refreshing to chat with him as he worked. (And secretly assess his abilities - he passed!)

Our energy supplier is trying to bully us into having a smart meter. My octogenarian neighbour had SMs fitted a while back and it cost him into three figures as the gas meter "fitter" could smell gas after he had finished. So he shut the gas off despite it being winter and cleared off. To get the gas turned on a CORGI registered gas specialist would need to be be called - at my neighbour's expense. The supplier's recommended "specialist" was unable to detect the smell of gas, but after spending* a few hours decided that he could not "risk" turning the gas on - and presented his bill. My neighbour then contacted a local plumber who had CORGI registration who diagnosed that the "fitter" had simply failed to bleed the system after fitting the meter. Less than an hour, but a bill nevertheless. The energy company that required the meter change simply refused to accept any liability.
I note that my energy supplier doesn't supply any details of terms and conditions, they just assume that the job will be straightforward, any modifications to their equipment [including fresh holes bored into my walls, nails banged into brickwork, changing locations of their kit etc.] and timing of their visit will all be convenient to us [assuming that they turn up on time and do the job quickly]. The aesthetics may not bother them, but shouldn't I see an image of the item that they propose inflicting on me - especially as it won't be in some meter cupboard? I suspect that my satisfaction with their little project is irrelevant. Their "offer" is non-negotiable and not transparent.
An unsmart water meter was fitted beside our drive - the guy just turned up on spec. He was working down the street and none of us had been advised. The cover of the old stop valve & meter was 250mm below the surface, so every time a meter reader came they excavated through the gravel beside the concrete drive and left debris on the drive and a pit. I asked if a collar could fitted to make the cover flush - "Of course, sir. My supervisor will be around in a week and will have someone with him to do that. I'll put it on the record." A decade later we still have pits and debris, so we often park a car so they can't get to it. They always seem to find a way, when we are out!
Am I content to continue with my existing meters?

* perhaps a charitable description. Some tradesmen seem to spend plenty of time on their phones, drinking tea/coffee, fetching things from their van [always from inaccessible recesses], damaging things and fiddling about. I prefer to chose my own trusted tradesmen!

 

[Murox]

Most meter swappers aren't engineers. Most of them have been on a couple of days course, given a kit and sent out into the world. The one that came to me was a rare beast, having been a long term network employee and knew what he was doing beyond the absolute basics. It was refreshing to chat with him as he worked. (And secretly assess his abilities - he passed!)

They may or may not be 'engineers', my particular 'swapper' has 35 years experience with over 20 in the same company.

 

[JamezF]

Individual circuit metering is perfectly possible but how much do you have to spend?

I know it's possible. I have been have tempted to build a system that used CTs on the individual wires for each way in the consumer unit to monitor usage, though it would be a major pain in the bum. What would be ideal would be to have some sort of sensor built into each MCB with a feed that I could connect up to something like an Arduino or Raspberry Pi.

James

 

[Sutty]

I know it's possible. I have been have tempted to build a system that used CTs on the individual wires for each way in the consumer unit to monitor usage, though it would be a major pain in the bum. What would be ideal would be to have some sort of sensor built into each MCB with a feed that I could connect up to something like an Arduino or Raspberry Pi.

James

This any use?
https://amzn.eu/d/2cdxfHB

 

[JamezF]

This any use?
https://amzn.eu/d/2cdxfHB

That could be very tempting indeed. I've never seen those before. I might have to do some more investigation. Thanks.

James

 

[Sutty]

That could be very tempting indeed. I've never seen those before. I might have to do some more investigation. Thanks.

James

If you try them let me know how it goes!

 

[Sutty]

That could be very tempting indeed. I've never seen those before. I might have to do some more investigation. Thanks.

James

Of course if you could remotely switch off the circuit supplying your router you may need a UPS on the router!

 

[Sutty]

That could be very tempting indeed. I've never seen those before. I might have to do some more investigation. Thanks.

James

There are a few available, here's another, tempted myself.

https://timerrealy.com/smart-wifi-c...seyePrj3WRvrsPoi7AUTN0hwz5jaF26gaAjMIEALw_wcB

 

[JamezF]

Of course if you could remotely switch off the circuit supplying your router you may need a UPS on the router!

As it happens, I already have two (a second for my desktop). Made sense when I was working from home. They've been quite handy this year too, as we've had a ridiculous number of power cuts.

James

 

[Sutty]

As it happens, I already have two (a second for my desktop). Made sense when I was working from home. They've been quite handy this year too, as we've had a ridiculous number of power cuts.

James

There's a good argument for one on a router if you have a landline on BT's "digital voice" where the phone plugs into the router and gives you no landline in a power cut.

 

[JamezF]

There's a good argument for one on a router if you have a landline on BT's "digital voice" where the phone plugs into the router and gives you no landline in a power cut.

Nor even a mobile phone in our case, because there's no viable mobile signal at home so we have to use wifi calling.

James

 

[Penninetrader]

Not really as losses in the high tension lines eg pylons are much lower proportionally, relatively low current due to high voltage and it's the current and resistance which determines the losses rather than the voltage. This is why they use HT.
The load on an individual substation may be an issue, but I'd bet voltage-dropping losses are in the much smaller cables close to customer premises (smaller cable = higher resistance = higher losses for a given current).

Substation issues, yes we have had a few of those locally. This would be closer to what I am driving at rather than the network as a whole. I have 2 supplies at my property, one single and the other 3 phase. Outages are generally on 1 of the phases. The lads doing repairs tell me fires on supplies are not uncommon. There have been 2 burn outs at the point supply enters properties, both of which within the last 18months and within 200m of me Our supply network is most definitely not up to the job..