Amm

[Haughton Honey]

There are groups that have studied the history of our "local bee" (if I can call it that) and can trace the genetic makeup but that is way beyond me. I agree with you about Buckfast and does this not also apply to Italians etc in the UK, are they not all mongrels? But they can be traced back to their roots if you know what you are doing.

It might be looked on as a waste of time but I am just curious to try and find out myself like you say what is a true 100% AMM, I don't know. I am not looking to find the best honey producer just curious to see what all the debate is about

Nobody does. Including BIBBA, who incidentally, are a pretty self-appointed bunch.

What one is discussing when talking about the fabled Amm is invariably a dark, local mongrel.

Nowt more.

I am still waiting to be introduced to a 'pure blood Amm'.

 

[Dared]

If that's true then it is just like the rest of us, very difficult to find a pure bred Englishman but they are rumoured to be alive and well in Devon and wales so I am told who knows maybe the bees went with them.

I am sure genetically it can be traced back to its roots and so give a starting point on what a true Amm is but like you say to try and find anything but a mongrel is going to be a bit of a challenge.

 

[Mellifera397]

I think to keep any strain of bee pure would be nearly impossible unless you live on an island. As you say its a choice of buying new when queen needs replacing, but from what I have read this is not required as often with AMM. Its also rumoured that AMM drones are hornier than other drones so fly faster maybe that will help

It really is just a personal thing and maybe having them would spread some new DNA locally.

There are a few isolated apiaries that I've heard of, our association uses one in the welsh mountains, snowdonia, I think.

M

 

[VEG]

But are they proven to be AMM?

 

[TBRNoTB]

If that's true then it is just like the rest of us, very difficult to find a pure bred Englishman but they are rumoured to be alive and well in Devon and wales so I am told who knows maybe the bees went with them.

I am sure genetically it can be traced back to its roots and so give a starting point on what a true Amm is but like you say to try and find anything but a mongrel is going to be a bit of a challenge.

Wait till 'taff on a boat' reads that!

 

[keith pierce]

If that's true then it is just like the rest of us, very difficult to find a pure bred Englishman but they are rumoured to be alive and well in Devon and wales so I am told who knows maybe the bees went with them.

Yes, and even the royal family came from Germany, so how long to you have to be resident in a county to be called native or local.

 

[VEG]

well if olympics or football is anything to go by as long as you are slightly related.....

 

[susbees]

Nobody does. Including BIBBA, who incidentally, are a pretty self-appointed bunch.

What one is discussing when talking about the fabled Amm is invariably a dark, local mongrel.

Nowt more.

I am still waiting to be introduced to a 'pure blood Amm'.

Forgotten the happiness pill, C? Of course there are Amm genes in various amounts in many UK colonies and a list of behaviours and external features which point towards bees arguably better suited to the cr*p weather we now have.

So, starter for one: look at the colonies flying when it's cooler and raining light to moderate. Guess what, they won't be two bar yeller Italian strains or likely dark Carnies either. Buckies are a mixed bunch these days so pass. But those bees out in the yuck, they will have broad abdomens and Amm genes. And the drones and queens will apiary mate when all the other VQs are snuggled up at home going stale.

I personally don't care much for pure Amm or even 90% Amm....but a chunk of Amm keeps bees going when the going gets tough. Of course affordable DNA tests will reduce the leeway for argument.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Wait till 'taff on a boat' reads that!

It's OK I'm here now!

very difficult to find a pure bred Englishman

as there's no such thing! let's say they are more like the Buckfasts of the human race - a little bit of this, a little bit of that tinkered and chucked together by a well meaning German - they have their uses but won't come up to scratch in Wales - you either love em or hate em

 

[VEG]

haha

 

[user 6228]

Yes, and even the royal family came from Germany, so how long to you have to be resident in a county to be called native or local.

for a species its about 6000 years . A species has to be here before the land bridge was inundated

 

[pargyle]

It's OK I'm here now!


as there's no such thing! let's say they are more like the Buckfasts of the human race - a little bit of this, a little bit of that tinkered and chucked together by a well meaning German - they have their uses but won't come up to scratch in Wales - you either love em or hate em

I could never understand why Hadrian, when he built his wall in Northumberland didn't do the same for Wales - we had to wait 700 years, or thereabouts, for King Offa to finish the job ?

 

[Haughton Honey]

Forgotten the happiness pill, C? Of course there are Amm genes in various amounts in many UK colonies and a list of behaviours and external features which point towards bees arguably better suited to the cr*p weather we now have.

So, starter for one: look at the colonies flying when it's cooler and raining light to moderate. Guess what, they won't be two bar yeller Italian strains or likely dark Carnies either. Buckies are a mixed bunch these days so pass. But those bees out in the yuck, they will have broad abdomens and Amm genes. And the drones and queens will apiary mate when all the other VQs are snuggled up at home going stale.

I personally don't care much for pure Amm or even 90% Amm....but a chunk of Amm keeps bees going when the going gets tough. Of course affordable DNA tests will reduce the leeway for argument.

Too much red wine more like

My issue is the fact that I know not where the original definition of an Amm came from - which person or group decided upon it, and the wing morphometry for that matter - at what point in history was the genetic snapshot taken (pre-Isle of White disease? Post?).

Are we not talking here about dedicated groups of beeks trying to add a bit more definition and kinder traits to local 'mongrel' bees?

I've got a very very productive, bullet-proof black bee in one of my hives that dons a thermal vest and has been seen flying at 0-2c to 'expel'. However, they'll tear through your bee suit to try and get at you as soon as the lid is off - should I be calling these Amm?

 

[madasafish]

This discussion has been had before. Monty Python's skit on the Judean Popular Front for the Liberation .. or whatever .. and its fight with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Judea.... summed it up rather well.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE[/ame]

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

we had to wait 700 years, or thereabouts, for King Offa to finish the job ?

And still the English keep creeping in.

 

[For want of a better word]

Apis Melifera Melifera.?

Apis melifera melifera.

The bee proven by science to bee the native bee of Northern Europe and the British Isles.

Seems to be a lot of misunderstanding concerning Apis melifera melifera on this forum.
I can only refer you to the peer reviewed scientific literature that is searchable, try Google for starters.

I am looking for funding to undertake a Ph D at present to research into the DNA and comparison to wing morphometry and other physiological factors that define Apis melifera melifera.

As for the AMM queens/nucs/ etc being offered by some suppliers, my suspicion is that they are as "pure" as the "Buckfast" bees they offer !

Get some local bees bred by a local beebreeder bred from local stock.......LOCAL seems to be the best bee for most!

 

[Finman]

Apis Melifera Melifera.?

Get some local bees bred by a local beebreeder bred from local stock.......LOCAL seems to be the best bee for most!

It suits best to mellifera mellifera because Italian bee is global.

Black bee was the first bee race imported to new continents but it is replaced everywhere by other races.

.

 

[Finman]

for a species its about 6000 years . A species has to be here before the land bridge was inundated

MM has eveloped in Africa and it arrived to Europe much more later than Italian bee group.

10 years ago science tought that Europe is a evolution centre of Apis Mellifera and MM is the oldest race.
DNA mapping revieled that it is controversy.

But dreaming continues. The tundra of British isles is the birth place of honey bee when we really think about it. National for ever.

 

[Norton]

I am looking for funding to undertake a Ph D at present to research into the DNA and comparison to wing morphometry and other physiological factors that define Apis melifera melifera.

It would help to improve your image if you could actually spell the name of the bee you wish to study correctly!!!!!

 

[Finman]

Apis Melifera Melifera.?
I am looking for funding to undertake a Ph D at present to research into the DNA and comparison to wing morphometry and other physiological factors that define Apis melifera melifera.
!

could find more stupid issue to research. Morfometry is allready known. DNA is known.

and other pfysiological factors like.......when I read your texts, it is better to save your money to something else. Like to "local bee morfometry". Or "how near is near".