Air source heat pumps

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Does anyone have any experience of air source heat pumps? Pros and cons please. My parents have been considering one. They currently rely on an oil fired boiler for heating. Thanks
 
There's someone on here who seems to be a bit of a guru in all things solar, ashp etc. so they may be able to help. but for the life of me I cant remember who.

Just hijacking a little rather than create another thread, so if they see this , I too could do with some helpful input too.

I'm looking to the future, and would like some unbiased advice from someone, rather than a salesman, who all seem a bit snake oily on this.
I live in a converted fairly open plan barn, with LPG boiler and wet underfloor heating, plus a log burner, got a few pitched roofs facing wsw, and one small facing due south, so looking to explore all the options.
 
I'm looking to the future, and would like some unbiased advice from someone, rather than a salesman, who all seem a bit snake oily on this.
.

you need a very well-insulated property to start with. For old properties such as ours that's quite a stumbling block.

James
Yes, soon after ASHPumps come in about 10 years ago we were visited by a pair of salesmen who tried to persuade us that our dwelling would be ideal - despite the fact that our property is 600 years old, of wattle and daub construction, and inevitably poorly insulated.......
BTW, at least it is still standing and waterproof - unlike our local hospital, built 1970s, which is ""promised"" for replacement because of RACC
 
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Does anyone have any experience of air source heat pumps? Pros and cons please. My parents have been considering one. They currently rely on an oil fired boiler for heating. Thanks
I instaled my ASHP to my ex local authority semi 10 years ago and it has been as efficient and cost effective as gas. (I also have gas at the property so could have installed standard gas CH but as my company was selling renewables at the time I though I should put my money where my mouth was.)
To ensure the heating is effective the house has to be insulated to the best you can get it. Walls, floors and roof.
You will need radiators approximately twice the size of ones for gas/oil as the flow temperatures will be half.
When I installed mine I got the RHI which meant that systems (including insulation) had to be between 240 & 370% efficient which dictated the size of the RHI.
Living with an ASHP is slightly different as background temperatures have to be maintained and windows are rarely opened wide during winter as recovery time is long with low flow temperatures.
IMHO if you can insulate a property well and you are heating with oil or lpg at present you can’t lose with a ASHP
I would recommend getting several companies to quote and compare their designs.
 
Does anyone have any experience of air source heat pumps? Pros and cons please. My parents have been considering one. They currently rely on an oil fired boiler for heating. Thanks
Yes (spit). My old oil boiler was approaching end of life and I filled in an enquiry on line which resulted in a few companies making contact. I went with Greener Living from Sheffield who talked all the right talk, had a energy efficiency survey carried out and had a lot of favourable trustpilot comments AT THE TIME. The sub contract installation team were tidy and carried out their job efficiently. Unfortunately GL commissioning abilities were inadequate. We spent months living in sub-comfort temperatures and despite many complaints no remedial works. Finally I involved the national registration bodies. NAPIT took them to task and kicked them into action. I had a visit from a guy who seemed to be the only knowledgeable member of the team. He identified missing items and when this was rectified the house became warm again but because more energy was being pumped into the house the electric bills rose accordingly. Running costs even now are slightly higher than they were with oil. Fortunately the RHI grants were still available so over 7 years I get progressive payments towards the capital outlay. I used my own bank for a loan and the RHI covers the repayments. Candidly I'd simply replace the oil boiler with a condensing model now. I'm told GL have now gone bust.
No doubt there are satisfied heat pump users but I'm not one. Oh and finally. building regulations prohibit going back from ASHP to oil once you make the switch.
Apparently the same crew have started up as Eco services. See trustpilot reviews https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/greenerliving.co.uk
 
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Yes, had one for eight years in a solid wall house built in the 1850s .
Do not get quotes from plumbers
Get quotes from professionals
Get as much insulation as you can as part of the deal.
If it is radiators then either make single ones double or get larger ones
If it under floor heating then make sure all pipe work is suitable.
If you can afford PV panels and batteries these help keep costs down
Pros ... Best thing we ever did, no smell if oil, no fumes, no naked lights, better for the environment, easy to control. Keeps house at a lovely steady temperature
Cons ..... If it is very cold for a few days it can be expensive but does even out over the year
You need to have some knowledge of the workings to be able to tweak it for your comfort and keep costs down
It really comes into its own with PV and batteries and being able to use cheap rate electric from overnight to run it during the day
It is not a cheap alternative but it is comparable
There are many cowboys out there, be careful
There is loads of bad press
Would we change it? Never, I think it's brilliant
 
The idea that you 'need' a very well insulated property isn't really true, particularly if we're comparing against an old oil system. What you really need is well designed system, of which insulation is one component. Insulation makes it cheaper to run, but that's the same for any fuel source. In older properties it's usually the drafts that are the biggest problem, and these are pretty easy to deal with, if a little time consuming. Still, it shouldn't be too difficult to design a heat pump install to outperform an old oil setup. A heat pump will be several orders of magnitude more efficient than an oil boiler (say 85% vs several hundred percent) and heating oil is not too cheap these days. The main stumbling block in achieving that efficiency in older properties is usually the cost/hassle of the radiators/pipework/etc to make it viable. It's a full system overhaul rather than a straight swap.

What you need to make a heat pump viable is a very low average flow temperature (in the 40s). I say average because you also need weather compensation so that you are able to maximise efficiency when it's warmer, which makes up for the higher cost when it's very cold - with weather compensation, the flow temp varies according to the outside temperature (heat pumps get more efficient at lower flow temperatures). But, lower flow temps also require larger radiators in order to get the same amount of heat into the room (which is why underfloor heating is great). Realistically, if you're going from an old oil install to a heat pump then you're probably going to need every single radiator to be at least twice the size (that can mean swapping to a double or triple panel, rather than doubling the physical area). Radiator sizing in older properties can be all over the place though, so you won't really know until you have a thorough heat loss survey done.

Which brings me back to point number 1 - the design of the system. As is always the case when free gov money is on offer, the chancers and cowboys move in to take advantage. You need an experienced, reputable company to do the work, and it's probably not going to be a case of getting several quotes and going with the cheapest because it's a complex process, and the design/commissioning of the installation will make or break it.

It's also worth mentioning that heat pumps are ideal for retired people who are home all day, as the system should be designed pretty much constantly in order to keep the flow temp low. That is obviously the opposite of a traditional oil setup, which is on for a couple of hours in the morning and a couple more in the evening.
 
So for those people who need to open windows regularly or are in the habit of "airing" rooms due to damp conditions or to stop condensation in bathrooms, after cooking in kitchens or drying clothes indoors, the message would be "forget it", as the heat loss would be too great?
 
So for those people who need to open windows regularly or are in the habit of "airing" rooms due to damp conditions or to stop condensation in bathrooms, after cooking in kitchens or drying clothes indoors, the message would be "forget it", as the heat loss would be too great?
You can get heat-exchanging ventilation which might help, though i have no experience of it.
 
I live in a converted fairly open plan barn, with LPG boiler and wet underfloor heating,
We have wet underfloor heating/ hot water run by a solid fuel Rayburn. The cottage was built in the 1800s with thick stone walls. We have put in double glazing but apart from that I’m lost where to start.
 
Not sure if you can draw direct comparisons with a gas boiler underfloor heating system. Our water temp is set at 40C. Takes 12 hr for the house to get upto room thermostats temp of 20C when starting from around 10C. Due to the 24mm stone floor laid on a screed base it can store a lot of heat. I’m forever having the patio doors open in the winter and the room quickly gets back to 20C once they are closed. I would suspect an air pump system would be just as efficient with underfloor heating & a stone floor.
 
Thank you for your reply Neil
Just a thought. Install larger radiators than recommended. You can always turn the radiators down but you can’t get more heat out of a small radiator.
 
We have wet underfloor heating/ hot water run by a solid fuel Rayburn. The cottage was built in the 1800s with thick stone walls. We have put in double glazing but apart from that I’m lost where to start.
I'm totally lost too Dani. To the point where I'll probably not do anything rather than get fobbed off. Just realised from reading a reply on this thread that @enrico is the guru I was trying to recall 🤣
 
A very important part of success is individual temperature controllers for every single room - ideally ones that learn how the room responds and adjust their timings so it is at the desired temperature at the desired time.

We have had a ground source heat pump for the past 8 years *RHI just run out) - it is a fraction of the price of LPG to run, we have underfloor heating downstairs - this was before the superb wundatherm retrofitting solution was available so all the floors were ripped up - still worthwhile. Get underfloor heating if you can.

Upstairs we have radiators - suprisingly we didn't have to change them from the LPG system (they were oversized).

The upstairs system uses the Honewell home Thermostatic Radiator Valves. If there is more than one radiator in the room they speak to one another to co-ordinate activation. Each room is a different zone with a central controller and phone app.

Even if you don't have a heat pump investing in room level controls will make your home nicer to live in and (probably) save cash.
 
We had our 17th century cottage fitted with external insulated cladding about 2 years ago. It has made a a very noticeable difference; the house maintains a more constant temp throughout the year and that makes the house feel warmer especially on winter mornings. The amount of oil consumed has significantly gone down.

Compared with having a whole new heating system installed it was a relatively easy and stress free process, taking about 6 weeks in all.
 

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