A few questions from a would be beekeeper.

[Bluebell1985]

After years and years of being interested in beekeeping I'm finally in a position to actually get some.

I apologise if these questions get asked every day. I've had a go at the Google and didn't find anything ultimately conclusive or in date.

I've been researching and I think (99.9%) I'm set on the 12 frame Abelo poly hives. My "research" has also led me to buckfast bees and here lies the bit where I confuse myself.

I have read and viewed YouTube videos of plenty of keepers opting for a 12x14 variety due to the prolific nature of the bees, resulting in double brooding on the national deep. Does having the 12x14 variety eliminate the need to double brood if the bees expand in such high numbers? I'm curious to know how many bees would 12 frames of 12x14 in the brood box accommodate.

Any advice on the above is very much appreciated.

Second part...

I quite fancy the idea of plastic frames too. I've seen a good set that come as the standard deep or super size. Nothing though for 12x14. Does anyone here use such a frame or know where they can be sourced? I'm not so worried about the foundation at this stage.

Many thanks and I hope not to be flamed or scolded due to my naivety/ignorance.

 

[Ian123]

Ok first off book yourself on a winter course and a spring practical before looking a getting any bees, there’s probably more involved than you think. With prolific bees I don’t find 14x12 big enough and dbl brood far more flexible. Poly hives are good but if your just starting out I’d recommend seconds cedar from the main suppliers. Inc frames at reasonable prices. There’s sales on around Xmas or spring if you make it through the practical. Good luck on the not getting flamed by the way

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi Bluebell and welcome.
I keep Buckfast in Abelo 14x12 but not the 12 frame variety
I have tried all sorts of bees from Black native bees to Carnica to local
Mongrels.
There is much to be said for working with what is local to you and improving your stock by choosing the best and certainly lots of people try.
It depends what your attitude is.
I take the line of least resistance and choose a nice quiet bee that gives me some honey.
It might be the right way for you and it’s certainly an idea to start that way then as you gain experience you can play with different bees

I strongly recommend you join your local beekeeping association and get some hands on experience.

Plastic foundation? Not my cup of tea
Some folk like it. Not me

 

[Nige.Coll]

Avoid Italian Buckfast they are crap.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Avoid Italian Buckfast they are crap.

Yes I would agree there

 

[Ian123]

Avoid Italian Buckfast they are crap.

No you mean the 2! you ordered from 1! particular supplier you thought poorit’s a bit like saying all Australians are a pain in the arse, I am personally aware of at least 1 that’s not

 

[user 20297]

Any advice on the above is very much appreciated.

Welcome @Bluebell1985. Get those bees ordered ASAP and if you can find a reliable local beekeeper with bees of no specific variety who can supply a well-filled, overwintered nuc as early as possible next year, give them the deposit now.

The new, Abelo, 12-frame boxes seem to be a reaction by the manufacturers mainly to worries about water seepage into the runners inside the boxes. It's really no big deal and as their original and second generation, 11-frame hives are compatible with standard wooden kit, I would go for them. It seems to be widely experienced that bees do better in polyhives although lots of people will say that's not so.....that's beekeeping! On balance, the earlier version with a deep roof and a wide landing/alighting step seems best, but I do like the later version's feeder option on the crownboard and better tray under the mesh floor. I would also get a spare deep box and a couple of shallows; in fact, you really need at least two hives and two colonies of bees.

I've never used fully plastic frames....wooden ones are really easy to build and seem to last forever. I have used plastic foundation but my bees haven't!

It's very wise to seek as much training as you can before and whilst you learn beekeeping, but don't let a lack of formal training or experience delay you any further...just get cracking, keep visiting here and get ready to put any other hobbies on the back-burner.....and that won't actually bother you.

I'll prepare to get scolded and flamed....surely, that would never happen.

 

[Bluebell1985]

Ok first off book yourself on a winter course and a spring practical before looking a getting any bees, there’s probably more involved than you think. With prolific bees I don’t find 14x12 big enough and dbl brood far more flexible. Poly hives are good but if your just starting out I’d recommend seconds cedar from the main suppliers. Inc frames at reasonable prices. There’s sales on around Xmas or spring if you make it through the practical. Good luck on the not getting flamed by the way

Course is booked for first weekend of September. Covid has prevented me getting started earlier this year.

 

[user 20297]

No you mean the 2! you ordered from 1! particular supplier you thought poorit’s a bit like saying all Australians are a pain in the arse, I am personally aware of at least 1 that’s not

That's a bit like saying "all beekeepers are grumpy old men", I'm personally aware of at least one who's not old and identifies as a woman.....

 

[Ian123]

I'm personally aware of at least one who's not old and identifies as a woman.....

I met him once at the convention, I think his name was John

 

[Bluebell1985]

Welcome @Bluebell1985. Get those bees ordered ASAP and if you can find a reliable local beekeeper with bees of no specific variety who can supply a well-filled, overwintered nuc as early as possible next year, give them the deposit now.

The new, Abelo, 12-frame boxes seem to be a reaction by the manufacturers mainly to worries about water seepage into the runners inside the boxes. It's really no big deal and as their original and second generation, 11-frame hives are compatible with standard wooden kit, I would go for them. It seems to be widely experienced that bees do better in polyhives although lots of people will say that's not so.....that's beekeeping! On balance, the earlier version with a deep roof and a wide landing/alighting step seems best, but I do like the later version's feeder option on the crownboard and better tray under the mesh floor. I would also get a spare deep box and a couple of shallows; in fact, you really need at least two hives and two colonies of bees.

I've never used fully plastic frames....wooden ones are really easy to build and seem to last forever. I have used plastic foundation but my bees haven't!

It's very wise to seek as much training as you can before and whilst you learn beekeeping, but don't let a lack of formal training or experience delay you any further...just get cracking, keep visiting here and get ready to put any other hobbies on the back-burner.....and that won't actually bother you.

I'll prepare to get scolded and flamed....surely, that would never happen.

Thanks very much. Had planned to get two hives and spare components should I need to expand quickly.

Covid had really delayed any hands on experience but I've read a few books and hundreds of hours of YouTube guides. I'm in the process of moving from one county to another so I'll be sure to join the local association as soon as I've moved.

I'm more so interested in the plastic frames and not so much the foundation. When (if) I know what I'm doing i may experiment a little.

 

[Bluebell1985]

Avoid Italian Buckfast they are crap.

The source would be in Wales and is well known on YouTube. Bees seem to be very active but calm. I'm more interested in calm bees as a primary factor more than anything else.

 

[Courty]

Hi Bluebell1985, welcome.
It may seem a huge step to choose your first type and size of hive but it’s not impossible to change later, just awkward. If you buy prolific bees in a good forage and weather area then the larger brood box would work.
I started with Buckfasts bred in Yorkshire and they did well, my area is not great for bees but they produce fantastic honey if they can manage the higher altitude and limited forage. I use Abelo poly nationals and that works for me, I am a big fan of good insulation.
I don’t use plastic frames and removed plastic foundation from my first nuc as it isn’t my thing. Warped plastic seems to be an issue with some but I don’t have personal experience.
I jumped in without any lessons but I read up on it, asked lots of questions from people who kept bees and I was open to being wrong, which my bees always appreciate and remind me on a regular basis.
I wish you well.
Courty

 

[Ian123]

Thanks very much. Had planned to get two hives and spare components should I need to expand quickly.

Covid had really delayed any hands on experience but I've read a few books and hundreds of hours of YouTube guides. I'm in the process of moving from one county to another so I'll be sure to join the local association as soon as I've moved.

I'm more so interested in the plastic frames and not so much the foundation. When (if) I know what I'm doing i may experiment a little.

Plastic frames have been around a while, they’ve not really caught on or necessary. Not sure on rice but a bundle of 50 wooden frames should set you back £25

 

[pargyle]

After years and years of being interested in beekeeping I'm finally in a position to actually get some.

I apologise if these questions get asked every day. I've had a go at the Google and didn't find anything ultimately conclusive or in date.

I've been researching and I think (99.9%) I'm set on the 12 frame Abelo poly hives. My "research" has also led me to buckfast bees and here lies the bit where I confuse myself.

I have read and viewed YouTube videos of plenty of keepers opting for a 12x14 variety due to the prolific nature of the bees, resulting in double brooding on the national deep. Does having the 12x14 variety eliminate the need to double brood if the bees expand in such high numbers? I'm curious to know how many bees would 12 frames of 12x14 in the brood box accommodate.

Any advice on the above is very much appreciated.

Second part...

I quite fancy the idea of plastic frames too. I've seen a good set that come as the standard deep or super size. Nothing though for 12x14. Does anyone here use such a frame or know where they can be sourced? I'm not so worried about the foundation at this stage.

Many thanks and I hope not to be flamed or scolded due to my naivety/ignorance.

There's a lot of questions that a new beekeeper has to ask but the reality is that you will have to make your own decisions .. we all have our personal preferences and there are so many ways you can keep bees (and all of them are right) and so many varieties and sizes of kit that the possibilities are endless and what it comes down to is what suits you.

The best advice is to try before you buy - you have lots of time before next spring (which is the earliest you should consider getting your bees and there will be functions you can attend (conferences, Beetradex, Sale days at Bee suppliers) where you can look at kit, try it for size, get the feel of it. There is even time to get alongside other beekeepers and see what they do and if you ask get to handle some of their kit.

You will find out what works best for you - once you have decided on your preferred hive and supplier stick with it - there is nothing more frustrating than mis-matched kit.

Avoid gadgets and gimmicks ... we've all been sucked in at some time and they end up in the back of the shed. Buy the minimum to start with and seek out the sales - it will save you a fortune.

Choice of bee is much the same .., many people start of with a swarm caught locally and often donated to new beekeepers by the local association (if you join). There's nothing wrong with this - they can be an unknown quantity but they are usually Nucleus size and you can get a measure of them - you may spend several hundred pounds on a full colony of bees and then find you don't like beekeeping ...

Spend you winter wisely, learn as much as you can .. ask questions on here - you will always get an answer but you will usually get several differing ones ... so - it comes back to making your own mind up !

PS: Despite what some may say ... wait till next year to start ... all you will be doing this year is getting them ready for winter ... and you will spend the winter worrying whether you can get them through ... better to start in spring - and it gives you more time to be ready. It will still be a steep learning curve ... and just wait until you get to the second year !

 

[Bluebell1985]

Hi Bluebell1985, welcome.
It may seem a huge step to choose your first type and size of hive but it’s not impossible to change later, just awkward. If you buy prolific bees in a good forage and weather area then the larger brood box would work.
I started with Buckfasts bred in Yorkshire and they did well, my area is not great for bees but they produce fantastic honey if they can manage the higher altitude and limited forage. I use Abelo poly nationals and that works for me, I am a big fan of good insulation.
I don’t use plastic frames and removed plastic foundation from my first nuc as it isn’t my thing. Warped plastic seems to be an issue with some but I don’t have personal experience.
I jumped in without any lessons but I read up on it, asked lots of questions from people who kept bees and I was open to being wrong, which my bees always appreciate and remind me on a regular basis.
I wish you well.
Courty

Thanks very much

 

[Bluebell1985]

There's a lot of questions that a new beekeeper has to ask but the reality is that you will have to make your own decisions .. we all have our personal preferences and there are so many ways you can keep bees (and all of them are right) and so many varieties and sizes of kit that the possibilities are endless and what it comes down to is what suits you.

The best advice is to try before you buy - you have lots of time before next spring (which is the earliest you should consider getting your bees and there will be functions you can attend (conferences, Beetradex, Sale days at Bee suppliers) where you can look at kit, try it for size, get the feel of it. There is even time to get alongside other beekeepers and see what they do and if you ask get to handle some of their kit.

You will find out what works best for you - once you have decided on your preferred hive and supplier stick with it - there is nothing more frustrating than mis-matched kit.

Avoid gadgets and gimmicks ... we've all been sucked in at some time and they end up in the back of the shed. Buy the minimum to start with and seek out the sales - it will save you a fortune.

Choice of bee is much the same .., many people start of with a swarm caught locally and often donated to new beekeepers by the local association (if you join). There's nothing wrong with this - they can be an unknown quantity but they are usually Nucleus size and you can get a measure of them - you may spend several hundred pounds on a full colony of bees and then find you don't like beekeeping ...

Spend you winter wisely, learn as much as you can .. ask questions on here - you will always get an answer but you will usually get several differing ones ... so - it comes back to making your own mind up !

PS: Despite what some may say ... wait till next year to start ... all you will be doing this year is getting them ready for winter ... and you will spend the winter worrying whether you can get them through ... better to start in spring - and it gives you more time to be ready. It will still be a steep learning curve ... and just wait until you get to the second year !

Thanks very much

 

[Erichalfbee]

Welcome @Bluebell1985. Get those bees ordered ASAP and if you can find a reliable local beekeeper with bees of no specific variety who can supply a well-filled, overwintered nuc as early as possible next year, give them the deposit now.

The new, Abelo, 12-frame boxes seem to be a reaction by the manufacturers mainly to worries about water seepage into the runners inside the boxes. It's really no big deal

It’s actually top space which is a big deal

 

[user 20297]

It’s actually top space which is a big deal

I didn't realise that was a feature of the new version; it wouldn't affect my choice, but I realise that many people hate bottom beespace.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Course is booked for first weekend of September.

If you mean one of these one day learn everything 'courses' I'd think twice. I believe they are only slightly better than reading a book and hoping for the best,good for a taster but that's about it. There is no way you can learn, or teach someone about bees in one day. Once you know where you're moving to, get in touch with the local BKA and book yourself on a proper course which will consist of half a dozen or so evening theory classes then hand on tuition in the spring.