A few questions from a would be beekeeper.

[thorn]

it’s a bit like saying all Australians are a pain in the arse, I am personally aware of at least 1 that’s not

You exaggerate.

 

[Ian123]

You exaggerate.

I’m a male fisherman and beekeeper what do you expect.

 

[Anduril]

I have used the plastic frames, back in the 1980's, they split apart quite nicely and it is easy to insert the wax foundation, I am still using a set in the supers. The one thing about these, is that you need a strong flow for them to be drawn out properly, the bees will try and avoid the sides of the plastic frames. It may take you 2 seasons for them to be drawn out fully.

 

[ericbeaumont]

Does having the 12x14 variety eliminate the need to double brood if the bees expand in such high numbers?

No.

Using triple National deeps is routine with me and that essential flexibility of expansion and contraction won't be given by one heavy 14x12 box, unless you're lucky and the box matches the laying rate of the queen at full speed. If you use good Buckfast queens a 14x12 is unlikely to be enough.

Course is booked for first weekend of September.

As JBM said, do a full course in spring; any practical knowledge you gain now will be forgotten by then. A taster day this year will be valuable if you haven't been inside a hive before.

all you will be doing this year is getting them ready for winter ... and you will spend the winter worrying whether you can get them through

True, but that will contribute to valuable experience. There are three points in the year where beginners fail: swarming, varroa control, and over-wintering.

Couple of years ago a customer turned up to collect a nuc and I discovered that she'd not done a training course, read a book or been inside a beehive.

She was positive and young enough not be fazed by her lack of knowledge and the bees came out of winter having been upgraded, fed and treated on the back of a few WhatsApps and reading Haynes. Mind you, she did a full course that spring.

 

[Patrick1]

It’s actually top space which is a big deal

Top bee space makes life so much easier, much harder to kill the bees as well
If you commit to a 14 x 12 style there is no going back, however if you start at the standard brood box you can easily move to a 14 x 12 later if you want, if you get short of space in the national use a double brood..

I start with the national and move over to the dark side Langstroth and have never looked back.

As for plastic, its great just need to follow the guidelines, most important are a flow and strong hive.
Stick to Buckfast. happy days

 

[pargyle]

Using triple National deeps is routine with me and essential flexibility of expansion and contraction won't be given by one heavy 14x12 box, unless you're lucky and the box matches the laying rate of the queen at full speed. If you use good Buckfast queens a 14x12 is unlikely to be enough.

Although, if you, like me, run your 14 x 12 hives without a queen excluder (it works ..) then you will have enough space for the most fecund of queens. When they shrink back into the brood box in readiness for winter you have more than enough space for stores to see them through and you eliminate having to inspect two brood boxes or more through the season. There's always more than one right way to keep bees - but it's a confusing start for any new beekeeper.

As JBM said, do a full course in spring; any practical knowledge you gain now will be forgotten by then. A taster day this year would be valuable if you haven't been inside a hive before.

Totally - so called 'intensive' one or two day beekeeping courses are just great money earners for the people running them but they really are just tasters - there's a lot to take in and cramming it into a day or two ... not good.

True, but that will contribute to valuable experience. There are three points in the year where beginners fail: swarming, varroa control, and over-wintering.

Couple of years ago a customer turned up to collect a nuc and I discovered that she'd not done a training course, read a book or been inside a beehive.

She was positive and young enough not be fazed by her lack of knowledge and the bees came out of winter having been upgraded, fed and treated on the back of a few WhatsApps and reading Haynes. Mind you, she did a full course that spring.

They were one of the lucky ones ... I've seen more with dead bees in the spring and the devastation and self recrimination it brings to a new beekeeper. You would be far better advised to start in spring and watch a new colony build as the year progresses and ready them for winter having a few months of beekeeping under your belt and having completed a proper course over winter.

 

[coffindodger]

Agree with Pargyle; start in spring - and not too early. It will be a year for establishing both the bees and yourself so enjoy it. Best stick to simple items and ideas to start. A 'normal' National hive with wooden frames and wired foundation. It's easy to move to 14x12 if you want the following year but with a standard brood box prices are cheaper and you'll find it easier to borrow from friendly beeks. Plastic frames and Langstroth you can experiment with once your apiary is up and running. Bringing in variables until everything has stabilized is asking for trouble. With bees it's always KISS.

 

[Arfermo]

Just jump in the deep end and you learn to swim very quickly. Courses for later if you wish to become a Master of the Art.

 

[pargyle]

Just jump in the deep end and you learn to swim very quickly. Courses for later if you wish to become a Master of the Art.

I'm sure there will be masochists with the problem solving ability of Alan Turing who will avidly follow your advice ...

 

[Poly Hive]

I hate to admit this but I never did a beginners course as I was offshore and would miss the half of it. BUT I read and read and read.

Just a heads up re the youtube stuff and I make no apology for this........ beware of anything that is not from the UK. Hotter climates make beekeeping in some ways a lot easier than our marginal weather. We are in the outer limits of the bee world and it does make a difference.

PH

 

[Markthebuilder]

I went down the 14 x 12 rout because I was persuaded by a well known beeks comment that a “ standard National was not large enough for modern prolific bees” I also wrongly assumed that I might save money and have 1 larger all singing all dancing hive. Rather than needing 2.
Knowing what I think I know now and would start with standard bs national brood and go down the double brood rout if required. A 14x12 Nuc seams a big space to start a new
Colony and a14x12 frame of brood seams a lot to take from a hive when Undertaking manipulations. acquiring new bees from others on standard brood seams much easier than finding a supply on 14x12 and if you are on standerd frames there is no miss-match of equipment. Finally It is practical to spin out a bs National brood frame that is full of stores and leave you with some nice drawn comb …. Not so with 14x12.
That said I Have no plans to take a saw to my 14x 12 s and now mix bs standard brood frames in my 14x12 boxes and allow bees to build their comb below.

I would definitely order two Nucs of whatever size now from a breaded of your choice for early next year and enjoy buying all the gear between now And then in the sales that crop up + there is Xmas and a 50% chance of your bday before they arrive

 

[Markthebuilder]

Small point but if you start with national standard brood and find the need for expanding the brood but don’t want to go double you can add an eak to create a 14x12 it also gives the bees the opportunity to build drone comb if they chose to

 

[pargyle]

Small point but if you start with national standard brood and find the need for expanding the brood but don’t want to go double you can add an eak to create a 14x12 it also gives the bees the opportunity to build drone comb if they chose to

Or they could start with a proper box size to start with rather than a cramped space that was born out of a shortage of timber to make beehives ... I'd probably go with Langstroth if I was starting over again ...

 

[REDWOOD]

Only once did I have to double brood a 14x12. Suitable size for a prolific bee like Buckfast
i run 10 frame poly and wood BBs and don’t see any difference between them
join a BKA they might have nucs for sale next year

 

[Nige.Coll]

No you mean the 2! you ordered from 1! particular supplier you thought poorit’s a bit like saying all Australians are a pain in the arse, I am personally aware of at least 1 that’s not

I've had more than 2 and they have all performed poorly compared to other sources.
Most of the garbage spouted about Buckfast comes from people's experiences with mainly Italian mass produced queens.

 

[Ian123]

I've had more than 2 and they have all performed poorly compared to other sources.
Most of the garbage spouted about Buckfast comes from people's experiences with mainly Italian mass produced queens.

Itld has some Italians have you tried those?

 

[Bluebell1985]

I hate to admit this but I never did a beginners course as I was offshore and would miss the half of it. BUT I read and read and read.

Just a heads up re the youtube stuff and I make no apology for this........ beware of anything that is not from the UK. Hotter climates make beekeeping in some ways a lot easier than our marginal weather. We are in the outer limits of the bee world and it does make a difference.

PH

Thanks. I've been mainly following two presenters in Wales and one in Norfolk.

Bookwise I've got a few generic beginners beekeeping books and then the Collins Bible.

 

[Bluebell1985]

Agree with Pargyle; start in spring - and not too early. It will be a year for establishing both the bees and yourself so enjoy it. Best stick to simple items and ideas to start. A 'normal' National hive with wooden frames and wired foundation. It's easy to move to 14x12 if you want the following year but with a standard brood box prices are cheaper and you'll find it easier to borrow from friendly beeks. Plastic frames and Langstroth you can experiment with once your apiary is up and running. Bringing in variables until everything has stabilized is asking for trouble. With bees it's always KISS.

Sound advice. Thanks very much. Had no intentions of starting this year.

 

[Bluebell1985]

Or they could start with a proper box size to start with rather than a cramped space that was born out of a shortage of timber to make beehives ... I'd probably go with Langstroth if I was starting over again ...

I'm interested in your reasons regarding the Langstroth if you have a few mins.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm interested in your reasons regarding the Langstroth if you have a few mins.

I would do the same. For me I like the bigger brood box and top bee space