Zero waste honey refills

[North End Bees]

I've been approached by someone who owns a Zero Waste refill store for potentially selling honey 'on tap'.
They sell all the usual zero waste refill products (organic grains, spices, oils, as well as organic household cleaning refills, etc.) Apparently customers have asked about honey so there's a ready market.

I have no idea if this is feasible. Has anybody here tried it?

The store is a converted farm building, not too warm at the best of times, so I don't know how they would maintain a runny enough consistency to get the honey out of the tap?! (They keep the containers of different oils on heated mats to stop them going cloudy but oil is a lot less dense than honey.)

If anyone has done this, or knows it can be done, I'd appreciate some advice. The store owners have no more idea than I do if it is a do-able way of selling honey but, as they asked, I thought it's worth looking into.

 

[pargyle]

I've been approached by someone who owns a Zero Waste refill store for potentially selling honey 'on tap'.
They sell all the usual zero waste refill products (organic grains, spices, oils, as well as organic household cleaning refills, etc.) Apparently customers have asked about honey so there's a ready market.

I have no idea if this is feasible. Has anybody here tried it?

The store is a converted farm building, not too warm at the best of times, so I don't know how they would maintain a runny enough consistency to get the honey out of the tap?! (They keep the containers of different oils on heated mats to stop them going cloudy but oil is a lot less dense than honey.)

If anyone has done this, or knows it can be done, I'd appreciate some advice. The store owners have no more idea than I do if it is a do-able way of selling honey but, as they asked, I thought it's worth looking into.

There was a thread on here - might have been a couple of years ago ... there were lots of reasons why it was not a good idea ... I'll see if I can find it.

Here you go ...

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/attractive-honey-dispensing.50927/#post-778454

 

[Boston Bees]

Just tell them to keep a Flow Hive in store. Simples! I've seen the video on YouTube and there's nothing to it.

 

[North End Bees]

There was a thread on here - might have been a couple of years ago ... there were lots of reasons why it was not a good idea ... I'll see if I can find it.

Here you go ...

Ah, thanks for finding that. I did try the search button but obviously didn't put in the right question!

So it looks like a non starter then unfortunately.

 

[North End Bees]

Just tell them to keep a Flow Hive in store. Simples! I've seen the video on YouTube and there's nothing to it.

Ha! I did think of the possibility!

 

[pargyle]

Ah, thanks for finding that. I did try the search button but obviously didn't put in the right question!

So it looks like a non starter then unfortunately.

It certainly comes with a few challenges and whether it is worth trying to overcome them in order to meet a principle .... depends how much effort you are prepared to put into it ?

 

[North End Bees]

I'm thinking I could get back to them with the option of a deposit on the jars instead. Bring back the empties for a price reduction on the next one.

From a zero waste point of view, it's the same as the customer reusing their own jars, just reusing someone else's!

 

[Hedgerow Honey]

We supply one such store.
I purchased a polycarbonate tank from Abelo which is also heated

 

[JamezF]

From a zero waste point of view, it's the same as the customer reusing their own jars, just reusing someone else's!

I believe there may be hygiene/food safety issues with that unfortunately.

James

 

[Newbeeneil]

I believe there may be hygiene/food safety issues with that unfortunately.

James

I agree. Today I had my regular call from my local EH officer to inspect my premises and systems for extraction and jarring. I think they may have something to say if I said I let random members of the public in, to operate the honey tap on my tank, who have not just washed their hands.

 

[Anduril]

I believe there may be hygiene/food safety issues with that unfortunately.

James

Customers may have used the jar to mix paint and thinners as one example.

 

[Antipodes]

Are you guys saying that you don't have shops that sell honey from a larger (say 20kg bucket) into smaller "bring your own" containers?

 

[North End Bees]

All valid points re reusing jars.

However, when I visited the shop I saw that they have quantities of used jars/plastic bottles for customers to use if they haven't brought their own. E.g. apple juice bottles with all previous labels intact so obviously not sterilised!

I was thinking along the lines of cleaning in dishwasher followed by drying in oven at home before resupplying to the shop.

 

[North End Bees]

Freeman & Harding's website FAQs says:

The Food Standards Agency and Re-Use of Jars
Can I reuse my jars?

The Food Standards Agency’s recent declaration about not reusing packaging has caused quite a commotion.

“The legislation with regard to food contact materials will preclude the reuse of glass honey jars for any commercial food use, even following stringent cleaning. A commercial honey producer is legally obliged to ensure their jars are fully compliant with legislation, and have an overriding requirement under the Food Safety Act to ensure the food they provide is safe.

Any packaging used must be compliant with the European regulations (principally Article 3 of Regulation 1935/2004), which sets out the safety criteria for food packaging. Though it can be assumed that originally the jars met these criteria, as they were fit to sell at the retail level, once sold and their constituent food has been consumed, the required chain of documentation which shows they are compliant is broken. Thus it would be impossible to demonstrate to the relevant authorities that the reused jars were compliant, unless the jars were knowingly manufactured to be reused, and within a closed loop distribution system like milk bottles. However, only the courts can decide whether in particular circumstances an offence has been committed.”

However, more recently on the BBC 4 programme "You and Yours" a FSA’s spokesman said that whilst in principal this is true, it does require a degree of common sense. Few materials are safer than glass. Glass is inert, it does not leach chemicals as plastic containers may. The jar filler needs to be sure the jar is not chipped or damaged and is clean.

As all beekeepers know, honey does not allow bacteria to grow. Lids should not be reused for reasons of not only cleanliness but also the seal may deteriorate over time.

Above all, common sense should prevail!

We are not providing guidance or advice, the decision is wholly yours to reuse or to recycle in your nearest bottle bank.

 

[North End Bees]

Are you guys saying that you don't have shops that sell honey from a larger (say 20kg bucket) into smaller "bring your own" containers?

These shops are springing up in every town recently and have become quite trendy but it's been mainly dry goods and household cleaning products. Not honey as far as I've seen so far.

 

[North End Bees]

We supply one such store.
I purchased a polycarbonate tank from Abelo which is also heated

Do you use this Abelo one ?
How long does honey stay in it between refills in your shop? I'm just wondering about HMF.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do you use this Abelo one ?
How long does honey stay in it between refills in your shop? I'm just wondering about HMF.

It takes 250 days at 30C to generate 30mg HMF which is below the legal limit of 40

 

[Newbeeneil]

It takes 250 days at 30C to generate 30mg HMF which is below the legal limit of 40

My info quotes 60 days.

Edit.... another source 100-300 days.....

 

[Erichalfbee]

Do you use this Abelo one ?

Phew! At that price I’d have the shop buying it

 

[Anduril]

My info quotes 60 days.

Edit.... another source 100-300 days.....

Sheffield Beekeepers has it at 60 days, there has to be a definitive answer, instead of it being so anomalous.