Wired foundation

[Jonnyl]

Evening beeks. I’m about to start keeping and I’ve got the hive built and the frames, all good to go when I receive the bees. However I’ve just read a site online expounding the use of frames with no foundation, just stiffening rods placed in the centre. I kinda like the idea of au natural keeping and the poster seemed to make a cogent argument with pictures and even a short video. My question is what’s the drawbacks? I’ve learned that they can be difficult to handle especially when the wax is new and soft but is there anything else that would debunk the posters idea? Thanks for anyone help. Regards

 

[carlg]

I tried that last year with a couple of my 14x12 hives. Tried some frames with just wire, no foundation, and some with bamboo skewers vertically and no foundation. The bees drew them all out fine, and although it was fragile to start with the frames were easy enough to handle, even in our so-called summer. The problem I had was that the bees made way more drone cells than I wanted. Half of the eight foundationless frames were drone brood. It had drones everywhere. Those two hives barely produced any surplus honey compared to the others on the same site.

I've switched back to foundation now. Interesting experiment, but I guess there's a reason why foundation was invented. I may use them again though if I want to encourage lots of drones from a good queen.

 

[Beagle23]

Evening beeks. I’m about to start keeping and I’ve got the hive built and the frames, all good to go when I receive the bees. However I’ve just read a site online expounding the use of frames with no foundation, just stiffening rods placed in the centre. I kinda like the idea of au natural keeping and the poster seemed to make a cogent argument with pictures and even a short video. My question is what’s the drawbacks? I’ve learned that they can be difficult to handle especially when the wax is new and soft but is there anything else that would debunk the posters idea? Thanks for anyone help. Regards

I needed to add a super in a hurry last year and went with foundation less frames. I found no difference in the ease of extracting honey or general working with those frames.

Good luck with your first colony

 

[pargyle]

Best ever thread on Foundationless beekeeping ...

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27494

Thanks to Tom Bick who started the thread ... where is he now ?

 

[Curley]

Thanks to Tom Bick who started the thread ... where is he now ?

Well he always seemed a polite and gentle soul so I imagine like you he got fed up with all the bickering

 

[Jonnyl]

I tried that last year with a couple of my 14x12 hives. Tried some frames with just wire, no foundation, and some with bamboo skewers vertically and no foundation. The bees drew them all out fine, and although it was fragile to start with the frames were easy enough to handle, even in our so-called summer. The problem I had was that the bees made way more drone cells than I wanted. Half of the eight foundationless frames were drone brood. It had drones everywhere. Those two hives barely produced any surplus honey compared to the others on the same site.

I've switched back to foundation now. Interesting experiment, but I guess there's a reason why foundation was invented. I may use them again though if I want to encourage lots of drones from a good queen.

Thank you. Yes the skewers were the idea I read, glad they worked out for you. I’m also using 14x12 frames in the broad box and i’ve read some don’t like them which has spooked me a little. Hope you find them manageable? As for the drones, is it not true that this can help with varroa treating by simply cutting out a portion of the capped drone brood? I also read to interlace foundationless with foundation which seems to help them build the comb straight? Thanks again

 

[Jonnyl]

I needed to add a super in a hurry last year and went with foundation less frames. I found no difference in the ease of extracting honey or general working with those frames.

Good luck with your first colony

Thank you. I’m going to use foundation first and hope to still be a keeper next year. Then I can maybe think of introducing some frames without foundation but i’ll Try and walk first.

 

[taurus]

I always include a couple of frames with no foundation in every brood box. Yes they fill them with drone brood but if they know they need more drones then they need more drones. Let them figure it out - they're the experts.

I used to put fishing line into the frames to give some support but after cutting myself every time I cleaned those frames out - slipping with the knife I was using to cut the fishing line - I don't both now. So long as you're careful whilst the comb is being built it's fine. Once it's complete I just handle as usual.

 

[Eyeman]

I like to use starter strips with fishing wired frames both 14x12 and nationals. All my bait hives have starter strips as swarms will drawn drone free comb as will most mating nucs. The other option for low drone cells is to try and get them drawn out later in the season after the drones start to get kicked out- will be trying this.
If you put a frame of foundation and one with a starter strip in a mating nuc they draw the starter long before they touch the foundation:


If you put the starter strips in early in the season you get drone comb:


It's nice to see how they start the comb construction:

 

[Jonnyl]

I always include a couple of frames with no foundation in every brood box. Yes they fill them with drone brood but if they know they need more drones then they need more drones. Let them figure it out - they're the experts.

I used to put fishing line into the frames to give some support but after cutting myself every time I cleaned those frames out - slipping with the knife I was using to cut the fishing line - I don't both now. So long as you're careful whilst the comb is being built it's fine. Once it's complete I just handle as usual.

Yes Taurus, I like the idea of no wires, it’s the comb falling apart that sweats me but it’s the Natural way. They don’t get wires in the wild. Let me know how it develops. Thanks for helping.

 

[Jonnyl]

I like to use starter strips with fishing wired frames both 14x12 and nationals. All my bait hives have starter strips as swarms will drawn drone free comb as will most mating nucs. The other option for low drone cells is to try and get them drawn out later in the season after the drones start to get kicked out- will be trying this.
If you put a frame of foundation and one with a starter strip in a mating nuc they draw the starter long before they touch the foundation:
View attachment 15563

If you put the starter strips in early in the season you get drone comb:
View attachment 15564

It's nice to see how they start the comb construction:
View attachment 15565

Outstanding snaps, thanks for the insight. It is lovely to see how they do it for themselves.