Winter insulation?

[theeggman]

We have a couple of older hives ( I think P's should do a trade in for the old roofs, as they NOW know they were TOO thin, for the new ones), but we put 25mm of celotex on all hives, poly or wood, within a super over winter.

Ericha,

Put it in a super, it will stay in place and if you push it down to the cover board it's going to provide the the best insulation!!

DerekKm will come back and correct me as I'm bound to be wrong, my wife always say's so.

Tim.

 

[MikeT]

Found all the comments regarding insulation interesting. Has anyone tried layers of bubble wrap above the crown board. Could also wrap hive in it, Would not break down with UV light in the winter.

Mike

 

[Erichalfbee]

My only concern is that I have a 4mm polycarbonate crown board on (no rim) and I like the idea of the roof covering the join.....so to speak. That's why I thought something on top might be better.

 

[user 6228]

This is an interesting thread on Beesource.

Bees Only Heat the Cluster, Not the Hive.



http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?304642-Bees-Only-Heat-the-Cluster-Not-the-Hive

The phrase "Bees Only Heat the Cluster, Not the Hive." can easily dismissed as a literal statement from the laws of thermodynamics but the phrase is used imply or support a number of things such as

1. bees will always cluster and let the rest of the hive go cold.
2. Bees are better off cold in winter and kept at 5C
3. Insulation is irrelevent

Then a couple of research papers or graphs or pictutres are pulled out to support the claims.

If you read the papers where these graphs come from...

you will find:

1. the first picture comes from experiments (Owens 1971)where the insulation was so minimal, it was impossible the for bees heat all the hive .The same way a hamster cant climb Everest. This research proved Bees are not suicidal. and will cluster rather than die
2. The second comes from experiments(Southwick 1982) in a temperature controlled cabinet i.e. ZERO insulation. Adding signficant insulation and varying the cluster mass to this information changes the graph dramatically

Neither say any thing about the behaviour of bees inside an insulated habitat where the level of insulation is significant.
So not only is the statement ""Bees Only Heat the Cluster, Not the Hive." inaccurate, it is based on, and is justified by, misinterpretations of research.


Owens, C.D., 1971. The thermology of wintering honeybee colonies. TechnicalBull., 1429: 9-11. A.R.S.,
U.S.D. of A., Washington, D.C.

Southwick Edward.E. 1982 Metabolic energy of intact honeybee colonies Comparative Biochemistry & Physiology Vol 71 pages 277-281

 

[madasafish]

So not only is the statement ""Bees Only Heat the Cluster, Not the Hive." inaccurate, it is based on, and is justified by, misinterpretations of research.


If the cluster in in the Hive , then any heat will heat the Hive.

Simple physics.. conduction and convection. Period

Anyone who has done O level science should recognise the statement as carp...

I keep reading statements in Beekeeping obviously written by persons who are either stupid , have not studied basic science or write before they think.

(Personally I think it's all three)...

 

[user 6228]

So not only is the statement ""Bees Only Heat the Cluster, Not the Hive." inaccurate, it is based on, and is justified by, misinterpretations of research.


If the cluster in in the Hive , then any heat will heat the Hive.

Simple physics.. conduction and convection. Period

Anyone who has done O level science should recognise the statement as carp...

I keep reading statements in Beekeeping obviously written by persons who are either stupid , have not studied basic science or write before they think.

(Personally I think it's all three)...

I get a lot of practice dealing with those who have misled by others, but when you get them to use what they have been taught at school, it then seems obvious to them what is wrong.
There are some howlers written in reviewed scientific papers as well. (not many but...)

 

[Finman]

.
A beekeeper heats oven, not a house.


It is very simple to measure youself with digital thermometer that hive air is warmer than open air.
Like it is shown in the picture.

Why to insulate houses if it has no meaning?

 

[Finman]

.
If you look a wasp nest, wasp insulates brood combs from open air with many layer paper dome.
When you take a larva to you fingers, you find that it is warmer than your hand.
It does that in underground hive too.

A bumblebee likes to make its nest into an old mouse nest. Is has hay etc as insulation.

 

[oliver90owner]

A bumblebee likes to make its nest into an old mouse nest. Is has hay etc as insulation.

Too right! And they only nest in spring to early autumn! Same with the wasps - plenty of insulation but the nest only used in the warmer months of the year.

One wonders why some cannot see the simple facts staring them in the face. Luckily, for us, dinosaurs became extinct. Bees will likely be here long after we humans have departed for good.

 

[itma]

…

I keep reading statements in Beekeeping obviously written by persons who are either stupid , have not studied basic science or write before they think.

(Personally I think it's all three)...

A truism that could be worthy of 'signature' status.

 

[madasafish]

A truism that could be worthy of 'signature' status.

Like this?

 

[itma]

There you go!

 

[user 6228]

One wonders why some cannot see the simple facts staring them in the face. .

To have doubts, then to go against the herd, to tell the elders, respected for their wisdom, in front of all the tribe, they have it all wrong.

How many do that?
And after a while the doubts are forgotten and they get on with other things and come to believe the accepted wisdom

 

[Jost Zmajevic]

I never use isolation for hives. Food is most important, like in nature.

 

[Ely]

I never use isolation for hives. Food is most important, like in nature.

The colder the hive, the more food they will consume needed for the energy to keep warm. Hence insulation. It really is a stupidly simple concept.

like in nature.

Exactly. Why do bees naturally build colonies in trees and not out in the open? Why do mice line their nests with fur? Why do birds build nests? Why do penguins huddle together en-mass? Why do they do these things instead of 'eating more'? To conserve energy, increase warmth and increase survivability.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Why do mice line their nests with fur? Why do birds build nests? Why do penguins huddle together en-mass?

And why do gorillas eat their own winnets?

 

[user 6228]

I never use isolation for hives. Food is most important, like in nature.

When heat losses exceed the organisms ability to metabolise food its temperature falls and usually dies, regardless of the abundance of food to eat.

Bees evolved behaviours to cope with this problem. The most notable was colonising the TOP of tree cavities.

Thus Nature for bees is insulation 4 to 8 times better than a wooden hive.

They also have clustering as backup for extreme weather, sub-optimal nests, and camping out when they move home. unfortunately Beekeeping religion seems to believe clustering is the only TRUE , and mandatory mechanism for bees in winter and significant insulation heresy.


You appear to be one of the faithful.

 

[Ely]

And why do gorillas eat their own winnets?

Is that welsh for bobbins?

 

[pargyle]

Is that welsh for bobbins?

No .... but you really don't want to know ... You have been warned ....

But, if you are really really curious .... and there is gross warning attached to this link:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=winnet

 

[oliver90owner]

Rabbits also 'redigest' some of their current output. Seems not a lot know that.