Winter insulation?

[thenovice]

No

I paint it...

no it is not waterproof or no it does not suck up water?

 

[itma]

... does it suck up water and does it loose its insulating properties when exposed to rain?

No and no.

But the cut edges need mechanical protection from the beekeeper (and possibly the bees). The fine grained foam (exposed at the edges) is a little 'crumbly'. Painting the edges or covering them with Aluminium sticky tape (£6 at Screwfix if it isn't currently in Lidl) improves things.

You may have noted that DerekM crafts his home-made hives from this material instead of wood. His preferred brand is Recticel (from Jewsons?) as having thicker Aluminium sheathing and the finest grained foam - IIRC.

 

[BrianO]

Fascinating to read all, some a bit to heavy for me.

Found this comment particularly interesting from Finman

But I have been so long in this forum, and I have seen your hive pictures, your summer nursing does not get applauses from me. You over ventilate your hives in summer and in spring and that is why their build up is poor.

I do wonder with a *Fully* open mesh floor with our windy climate how efficient insulation it is ?? Does Nadiring with a super decrease heat loss providing a further windbrake/buffer underneath so as the draught / wind does not so readily disperse the "heatwell" in the upper broodbox ? Does this Nadiring system ( I know the principle is based on food/stores for the bees ) , with the shallow super frames, 11 of, these I would see as providing an effective wind/draught reducing effect ?

Getting back to Finmans statement, during our Spring when colonies are striving to build, up should we have fully open OMF's or should we half cover or even 2/3rds cover during them ( In Ireland anyway, and I am sure most of UK, Spring can be almost Winter like ) to allow them a chance to build quicker ?

 

[user 6228]

Will it be effective being a loose fit?

Providing you seal all joints inside and out side and it has no top vent or holes
and the looseness isnt ridulous ... Its like a bell jar or a hive with very enthusiastic with the propolis bees.

10mm on the inside dimensions compared to the hive (crownboard but not roof) outside dimensions is good.

 

[Ely]

Providing you seal all joints inside and out side and it has no top vent or holes
and the looseness isnt ridulous ... Its like a bell jar or a hive with very enthusiastic with the propolis bees.

10mm on the inside dimensions compared to the hive (crownboard but not roof) outside dimensions is good.

Cool

 

[maddydog]

My cosies are made from celotex or kingspan. I've found that rain and/or painting delaminates the silver outer from the foam which is quite frustrating. I did find some expanded foam without the foil that worked well when painted but I'm guessing isn't as efficient thermally.
I get 3mm corex and spray glue from work which I've used to cover my cosies and then seal the joints using gutter sealant. I've removed the roofs completely and the cosies sit directly onto the crownboard.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have three, made with Recticel. They have been on a month or so. The component parts are joined with grab glue and barbecue sticks.The joints are first sealed with silicone then taped on the outside with aluminium foil. They sit on a square of 50mm Recticel on top of the crown board. I have taken no other weatherproofing precautions. Time will tell, I guess.

 

[user 6228]

I have three, made with Recticel. They have been on a month or so. The component parts are joined with grab glue and barbecue sticks.The joints are first sealed with silicone then taped on the outside with aluminium foil. They sit on a square of 50mm Recticel on top of the crown board. I have taken no other weatherproofing precautions. Time will tell, I guess.

the facings of kingspan and celotex weather faster than recticel.

 

[Hivemaker.]

This is an interesting thread on Beesource.

Bees Only Heat the Cluster, Not the Hive.



http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?304642-Bees-Only-Heat-the-Cluster-Not-the-Hive

 

[REDWOOD]

Now that's what I call a good debate, no slagging each other off.
Good point they only need heat to raise brood

 

[pargyle]

This is an interesting thread on Beesource.

Bees Only Heat the Cluster, Not the Hive.



http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?304642-Bees-Only-Heat-the-Cluster-Not-the-Hive

Fairly ill-informed posts in places ... they need Derek to liven things up a bit ... much more informed on here (a little less chilled though !!).

 

[Finman]

This is an interesting thread on Beesource.

Bees Only Heat the Cluster, Not the Hive.



http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?304642-Bees-Only-Heat-the-Cluster-Not-the-Hive

Yes, same idea as "firewood does not heat the house, it heats the oven".

.

.

 

[Finman]

.

Heat leaks
I measured 2 years ago the heat leaks of differently insulated hives compared to air temp 0C.


Types were
- 3 cm wood
- 2 cm polystyrene (Nacka)
- 4 cm polystyre with thin hand holes. (Paradise)
- heat under the insulation on inner cover ( 9 mm wood + 7 cm foam plastic matress)

It was amazing how high was the outside temperature of the boxes.

It varies too, where the cluster was situated. Near the cluster wall radiates more heat outside than opposite wall. Often the cluster starts wintering against the front wall and moves back during winter.

The temperature of inner cover was too in the center 25C, 18C and in the corner 14C.

So, the cluster does not heat only the air but it heats the box walls too, and the wall radiates the heat out. The surface temperature of walls were allways higher than in "dead hives".,


The difference between 2 cm and 4 cm polystyrene was clearly big.

 

[pargyle]

.

Heat leaks
I measured 2 years ago the heat leaks of differently insulated hives.

Types were
- 3 cm wood
- 2 cm polystyrene (Nacka)
- 4 cm polystyre with thin hand holes. (Paradise)
- heat under the insulation on inner cover ( 9 mm wood + 7 cm foam plastic matress)

It was amazing how high was the outside temperature of the boxes.

It varies too, where the cluster was situated. Near the cluster wall radiates more heat outside than opposite wall. Often the cluster starts wintering against the front wall and moves back during winter.

The temperature of inner cover was too in the center 25C, 18C and in the corner 14C.

So, the cluster does not heat only the air but it heats the box walls too, and the wall radiates the heat out. The surface temperature of walls were allways higher than in "dead hives".,

The difference between 2 cm and 4 cm polystyrene was clearly big.

Absolutely right Finman ....

Bill Bielby ... In 1972 ... Home Honey Production Page 44 "You can never have too much insulation" and "The most successful way to overwinter hives is to make them as draught proof as possible". Takes a while to catch on doesn't it ?

 

[Finman]

.

 

[madasafish]

Anyone with a TBH can place their hands on top of the bars - if they have insulation - and feel the heat. Of course, if they don't have any insulation there won't be any...or very little..

(It's a party trick for visitors new to TBHs)

(Only when there is brood.. )

 

[Stiffy]

Has anyone overwintered a colony in a poly nuc, and did you use an eke to put insulation in. Was wondering with it just having a clear film crown
view. What worked well as the roof seems thinner than the side walls?

I over wintered 8 poly (Pxxnes) Nucs last year, all had the Eke on with a slab of Kingspan which was place so that it filled the Eke. I lost one Nuc last year, which really should have been combined but I wanted to try and save another good queen.
I have Kingspan in the roofs of all my hives, it stays there as a fixture winter and summer, never had a problem with condensation and winter losses are minimal.
As polyhive used to say on this forum KISS principle works best
S

 

[REDWOOD]

I picked up some cheap second hand (new) 40mm kingspan so all hives have got 80mm of insulation on this year

 

[Erichalfbee]

You lot with Paynes hives.......are you putting extra insulation on top?
I thought I might just strap a square of 50mm PIR on top of the roof.

 

[itma]

You lot with Paynes hives.......are you putting extra insulation on top?
I thought I might just strap a square of 50mm PIR on top of the roof.

Last year I had supers with Celotex under the old-style roofs.

Hopefully not to be needed with the new roof design, but the single old roof still on a hive (rather than a stack of supers) will be getting similar help to before.