Winter insulation/ventilation

[Vergilius]

Seems like wooden floors ain't doing too well. Haven't had a massive problem with them but I do plan to change to OMF this summer.

Ben P

 

[chycarne]

OK both I was being vaguely humerous about my efforts at insulation- having done it in a real hurry... ah well----the air will circulate due to a couple of knife slips with the insulation, sudden decision to go ahead haveing finally sourced the material... the end result is a couple of gaps which while the roof fits fairly snuggly the insulation doesnt completley cover the lower hive, ie a couple of gaps between the eke and the insulation so the air goes up centre and then down the ouside (on the inside) on meeting the sides. So far no condensaton and no water on the top (inside) eke surround to keep the insualtion off the fondant... lesson learnt, be specific or dont say anything - sorry!!

 

[tonybloke]

solid floors, reduced entrances, porter escape in crown board to act as ventilation, no insulation at the moment. will get insulation in spring to aid build-up

 

[psafloyd]

My insulation is a quilt I got from T's for a few quid. It's quite thin with the black and silver alternate side.

I thought this might be a gimmick, but at the time I didn't know what else to use (before I joined here) and so far the girls seem to be doing very well.

 

[oliver90owner]

Seems like wooden floors ain't doing too well.

Ben,

It's all about: lies, damned lies and statistics! So quite likely wrong again, I'm afraid!

Regards, RAB

 

[blackbrood]

1 double brood on an open omf and 1 brood and a half on a solid floor. no insulation

 

[hedgerow pete]

see the video and the photo.

my lot in the shed were getting to humid so i have removed the poly ins and have added a duvet and a sleeping bag and they are on an omf

 

[savoyard]

OMF floor open - top WBC bee excapes sealed - 1 lift filled with polystyrene, bubblewrap and hessian around hive.

YOU MUST HAVE VENTILATION of the roof space.

I lost a roof to rampant dry rot last summer when the vent holes became obscured. The thick sheets of cotton-wool fungus inside made my blood run cold.

Lucky it was "only" a felted roof - and not a honey production hive

Savoyard

 

[Hawklord]

I have open mesh floor and a central hole in crown board with an empty super under the brood chamber to stop draughts being close to the brood area. Personnaly I don't think the temperature is a problem, it's wether the bees get wet either through leaking hives or condensation.

 

[Rosti]

I have open mesh floor and a central hole in crown board with an empty super under the brood chamber to stop draughts being close to the brood area. Personnaly I don't think the temperature is a problem, it's wether the bees get wet either through leaking hives or condensation.

Hawklord, would you not agree though that:
Bees keep the core of the colony at say 30'C over winter, to do this they use up supplies, hot air rises, poor top insulation means that energy is lost, bees replace lost heat with more supplies and effort.

Conclusion: top insulation reduces energy loss and effort; bottom ventilation protects against condensation; ideal is a combination of the two.

 

[Rosti]

Apologies, duplicate post -somehow!

 

[drstitson]

"bees keep the core of the colony at say 30'C over winter"

AFAIK this is not the case.

1. clustered bees act as good insulator
2. little heat radiated by cluster

Core temp only needs to be high for brood NOT wintering bees.

Not sure of temperature in centre of cluster but immediately above it may drop to 8-10 degrees.

 

[drstitson]

an extract from google books:

 

[Rosti]

"bees keep the core of the colony at say 30'C over winter"

AFAIK this is not the case.

1. clustered bees act as good insulator
2. little heat radiated by cluster

Core temp only needs to be high for brood NOT wintering bees.

Not sure of temperature in centre of cluster but immediately above it may drop to 8-10 degrees.

Nah! if thats an argument for not using top insulation I don't buy it, you must try harder! (even if I've mis-quoted the core temperature of a wintering bee ball)

 

[drstitson]

"if thats an argument for not using top insulation I don't buy it, you must try harder! "

that's not what i'm saying.

i have insulation on top to prevent the relatively warm moist air (12 degrees, 71% on monday) from forming condensation on a relatively cold crownboard.

 

[Rosti]

Ah, right you are then (embarassed grin)

 

[Hawklord]

Surely top insulation stops the air flow needed for ventilation? I'm not bothered how much stores the bees use so long as they survive through winter. This is the second winter I've got bees the through without feeding syrup or fondant.

 

[drstitson]

hawklord

You'll notice that most respondents use OMF and top insulation.

Top ventilation in that situation will just draw warm air out of the hive, defeating the object.

On other hand, solid floor hives probably benefit from a little top ventilation.

 

[Skyhook]

Surely top insulation stops the air flow needed for ventilation? I'm not bothered how much stores the bees use so long as they survive through winter. This is the second winter I've got bees the through without feeding syrup or fondant.

Not if you have OMF. By insulating the crown board you create a convection current- warm damp air rises from the closer, spreads out under the crown board, then because it is cooler at the sides falls there. If you have a solid floor this air will keep much of it's moisture as it is drawn back up to the cluster by the air rising from them, so there is more argument for top ventilation. With an OMF it will meet the cold air at the base and the moisture will condense out there. Some may also condense on the sides, this too will drip out through the OMF. By this system the bees can retain much of their heat but still lose the moisture.

 

[Moggs]

Top insulation: I had put some of the B n Q 50mm pink poly on, at the beginning of winter. During today's fondant check, I found that a load of bees had worked up into the roof space, chewing their way through the poly, past the curry-tainers of fondant. I stuffed some fondant down into the holes in the hope that they will get the message.

A real pleasure to see some of them out and about, on cleansing and orientation flights.

I just wish they'd leave the roofing alone.

Silly bees.