what have i done wrong!!!!!

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mark s 

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evening all
as you may or may not know my one and only have swarmed on sunday,but as i have a clipped queen,they all went back into the hive after a short while.
i then performed an atificial swarm by taking the frame with the queen on and another frame of brood,one of stores and a frame feeder with 1:1 in,i then moved this new hive back onto the old position,leaving the old hive minus the old queen in the new position some 5ft away,i moved the frames together in the old hive filled with new frames of foundation and left them to hopefully produce there own queen.
today however i got a call from home and rushed back to fine that the queen was on the floor outside the new hive (old position) while the old hive(new position) was swarming,i quickly picked up the queen and put her back in the new hive(old position) waited around for about an hour and all seemed to calm down and go back too normal.

can someone please tell me how ive balls-up here as ive not got a clue how ive gone wrong!!!!!:eek::eek::eek:

sorry its long winded
mark s

ps im using standard nationals
 

Rosti 

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Mark, first things first, if the queen has not settled then I suggest you place a QE at the base of the brood box. You may be supressing rather than dealing with the swarming urge but it may buy you time until there is a better chance of mating a replacement?

The geek beeks (said with affection!) will I am sure give you a longer term solution.
 

Poly Hive 

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You have given us no information as to how many (if any) Q cells there were in the parent stock. Nor what you did with them.

PH
 

admin 

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If the bees are in swarm mode and on Sunday you gave a frame of brood to the queen box of bees they could of fed a larvae with royal jelly if they still wanted to swarm,they would then cap the cell today,If a hive is intent on swarming they will sometimes leave when that cell is capped rather than wait for a virgin to hatch.
Have you checked that hive today for a capped queen cell?

Like PH says,more info needed to assist more,what did you find in the queenless box when you inspected it after moving her.
 

admin 

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You need to make the queen and bees think they have swarmed.

How many swarms do you know of that come with a comb of brood,all ready to make more queens to throw off cast swarms.
Remember you are not doing an artificial swarm.

They have already gone into swarm mode,get rid of the brood and give them some fresh foundation and a feed with a QE underneath for insurance.

That way she cannot lay until comb is drawn and is underweight for swarming so needs time to feed up again before she starts to lay.
This should give you enough time to help them forget the idea of swarming again.
 

taff.. 

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my first AS last year did exactly what you are saying here.

a week after doing the AS I opened up the box to find no queen and bugger all bees left :banghead:

I read on here later its a good idea to open up 4 days after doing the AS, to make sure there are no QC's about to be capped for them to swarm with.
 

mark s 

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i left what i thought was one q/c in the parent hive and destroyed 2 others.so i should take the brood frame out of the hive in the new position then and replace with just foundation then ??
 

grizzly 

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Hi Mark

So what have you got in the "New" hive, this you placed back in its original position ? so should have had the Queen on 1 frame, a little brood, some stores, frames with foundation and all the foragers returning ?

The other hive would contain the remaining brood, QC and the usual number of bees left after a primary swarm has left. ?

Sorry - Lots of Questions.

I had some Queens last year who were intent on leaving despite the AS, they just would not give up.
 

mark s 

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yes grizzly thats exactly what my situation is now
 

grizzly 

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Did you look in the hive - see any QC ?
 

mark s 

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yes there was none in the new hive old position and i left one that i could see in the old hgive new position,so the new hive old position has nothing but the old maquenn in it plus a frame of brood and stores
 

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so i should take the brood frame out of the hive in the new position then and replace with just foundation then ??
I would yes,others may think different though.
As long as they are in swarm mode and have brood to raise a queen cell they may continue.

If you leave brood then they can still swarm and just leave enough bees to cover the brood.

You need to get them out of swarm mode,is the queen laying again in that hive,any eggs?
 

grizzly 

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Think Admins got the right idea, other than removing the brood frame and perhaps plonking a QE under i would not know another course of action.

With the brood away that should create the environment a swarm would be setting up with.
 

Poly Hive 

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The classic error is to miss the sneaky queen cell which is in the gap between the wax and the side bar.

Hence the advice NOT to shake the frame on which is the cell you are leaving, preferably an open one, but to thoroughly inspect all the others.

PH
 

mark s 

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thanx all
ill try and sort this mess out over the weekend
 

mark s 

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just as a by note the new hive in the old position with the old queen in has just done a mass exodus flown around clustered on the clothes line pole and then all gone back in!!!!
im so confused right now it hurts:svengo::svengo:
 

admin 

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Have you got a QE underneath them?
Did you look for queen cells in the hive with the old queen in it?

Mark you are welcome to give me a ring tonight if you want to talk over the options..
 

grizzly 

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Could there be a Virgin in there along with the old girl ?
 

mark s 

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yes to both of those questions admin,i cant see another one in there but hey!!!!!
 

mark s 

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well im at a loss now this is the third day in a row that they have swarmed now,everytime they are all back within the hour.
ive taken all the brood out of the hive and left just a frame of stores and frame feeder in,the queen is still in there as ive placed a qx under the brood box
ive got 2 sort this out as my neighbours are starting too get a bit worried now
any ideas what my options are ive been told that closing then in for the day may help,any more suggestions ??
 
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