What did you do in the 'workshop' today

[user 6228]

Hang on a minute - this is one of the forum in-jokes isn't it? I'm new to the place, so don't have the history you old hands do. Someone please tell me screws v nails is someone taking the Michael. I thought I would be subject to derision and howling laughter, or even howls of derisive laughter, when I put that last question in... or are you all just sniggering behind your hands!!

Sounds like a joke but I was trying to nail down why a warre was losing so much heat and it turned out there was a lot of large screws used. putting a thermocouple on the screws I found out they were losing heat.

 

[Oscarmonster]

Use a rubber mallet silly

But not if you have rubber nails - like on like may give you sparks

Use a Ball pain/less hammer or a jock strap for rebounds

I can always relie on helpful answers from the other side.

 

[pargyle]

Sounds like a joke but I was trying to nail down why a warre was losing so much heat and it turned out there was a lot of large screws used. putting a thermocouple on the screws I found out they were losing heat.

MikeA - a forum member came round a couple of nights ago and took some thermal images of my well insulated hive ... it's a timber/polystyrene/timber sandwich construction with a periscope entrance with an 8mm polycarbonate front on the entrance.

I have an 8mm polycarb crown board which is sealed to the top of the hive with aluminium tape and there's 100mm of Kingspan on top of the crownboard under an apex roof.

The attached images (which I am sure Mike will not mind me sharing) show the heat loss from the hive ... actually, the thermal imaging was on a very sensitive setting so it looks a lot worse than it is. However, you can see on one of the images where the screws on the hinges show up quite distinctly as 'hot spots'.

The colony is a big one and you can see the shape of it (in a mass to the right of the entrance) on the images - you can even see where the hive is dummied down.

I saw some other images that he had taken of different types of hive and it is amazing how much heat is coming out from them and where it is coming from.

Fascinating ... I want one of these cameras ... not cheap though !

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Hmmm - food for thought with the continuously rising energy bills we're experienceing and as heat rises, I've decided to take next week off and I'm going to remove all the nails from the roof - there must be thousands up there with two to a slate and in copper! - I'd make a bit of pocket money from the scrap as well - bargain!

 

[Tom Bick]

Interesting looking at the photos and would be interesting to see other hives. Perhaps if we get some cold weather the results may be even more interesting as there was only a few degrees difference from the warmest to the coldest parts of the hive.

 

[pargyle]

Interesting looking at the photos and would be interesting to see other hives. Perhaps if we get some cold weather the results may be even more interesting as there was only a few degrees difference from the warmest to the coldest parts of the hive.

Yes .. The air temperature (measured on my digital min/max thermometer) when he took the images was 4.6 degrees .... the temperature inside the hive measured above the frames was 11.7 degrees.

What I wasn't sure about was whether the 'warmer' area to the RHS and slightly above the entrance was actually influence from heat coming from the colony and transferring through the hive walls or whether it was influence from heat coming out of the entrance and spilling across the front of the hive and warming the hive timber from the outside.

Mike (and he's an experience beekeeper and thermal imager) felt that it was the former as he said that heat from the colony would, over a continuous period, heat the hive structure right the way through. I'm not absolutely sure about this as there is 30mm of polystyrene in between the two layers of timber and this 'should' be an effective heat barrier.

What I am going to do is enhance the insulating effect of the periscope by putting some draught excluder between the polycarbonate and the timber - at present it is just a tight(ish) joint between the two materials.

I think DerekM has some thermal images of other types of hive.

The images I saw on Mike's camera were from timber and poly Nationals that he had taken the same evening - you could clearly see the outline of the cluster in the image (even through the solid timber, less so on the poly) and very marked heat loss where the cut outs for the handles on both types of hive were situated.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

continued making up super frames ready for this season - forty SN1's and ten Manleys made up and foundation fixed already - only another sixty to go and then start on the brood frames.
Had a bit of a break to repair the piece of dunnage (AKA the chicken coop) before picking up two more hens I was offered last night - SWMBO was reluctant until I pointed out that if she didn't give them a new home they were destined for tomorrows dinner table.
So our new 'rescue' hens are actually young warrens that have just come into lay but whose owner has had to move and can't take them with him.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Mrs J obviously has more hen disease. I suffer from similar. Driving back from Carmarthen the other day there were some nicely large jet black hens sporting very red headgear. "They're crows!!!!" said husband. I tracked them down......Minorcas He caught me on ebay looking at hatching eggs As I'm not allowed any more I told hime they come in bantie size (he likes banties ). He didn't say anything

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Mrs J obviously has more hen disease.

No - she's adamant about keeping just three - I'd have more though, but not warrens just a nice selection like marams, legbars and the like.

Well, in the workshop today completed my 100 super frames with foundation (including some manleys and SN1 with foundation for cut comb. Next I'll be starting on brood frames

 

[user 6228]

Yes .. The air temperature (measured on my digital min/max thermometer) when he took the images was 4.6 degrees .... the temperature inside the hive measured above the frames was 11.7 degrees.
....

if you are only getting 7C rise for a big colony you may have a heat leak problem.
they should be putting it up to circa 18c above freezing i.e rise of 13c. I have a really tiny colony that achieving the same level as yours by early morning but in early evenings they are at 21C with outside 4C.

However as the research on this is zilch ...

 

[pargyle]

if you are only getting 7C rise for a big colony you may have a heat leak problem.
they should be putting it up to circa 18c above freezing i.e rise of 13c. I have a really tiny colony that achieving the same level as yours by early morning but in early evenings they are at 21C with outside 4C.

However as the research on this is zilch ...

Bear in mind that my sensor is actually set in a pod above a piece of mesh in the crownboard above the frames ... so it is measuring heat rising from the colony above the frames and also, when the images were taken, the single sensor is actually sited to the left of the hive entrance so it's not even directly above the main part of the 'cluster'.

I have a full mesh floor in the hive as well. So - I would expect to see a temperature reflected in the sensor quite a bit lower than that in and around the colony. I'd love to be able to measure (as you do with your set up) temps actually nearer to the 'cluster' but I have a pretty infantile set up by comparison and it was, initially, only intended to give me an indication that the bees were 'surviving' .. sadly, it's become a bit more of an obsession now and I compare with external air temps as well.

I did have a second sensor sited at the bottom of the hive above the mesh floor but it stopped working and I really don't want to disturb them to find out why or replace it until it gets a bit warmer.

Mike had a look right round the hive and the only significant signs of heat on the exterior were those that you could see on the images so I don't think there's a leakage other than what you can see. I'm putting some draught excluder in the joint between the periscope 'door' and the 'frame' so that will reduce any loss from there - having said that, the bees have not propolised the joint so they are obviously not too worried about it.

I'm going to ask Mike to take some more images when the 'door' has been modified.

 

[ugcheleuce]

Today I realised that there is no way on this green earth that I can make a hive from non-pre-sawn planking using traditional tools only. Unless I buy a table saw, I will have to use ready-made materials for my hives. Hive experiment #3 is abandoned... it would have looked good, but I can't cut straight, so there.

In the coming week or two I'll learn to make my own frames, and if it is easy, I'll consider going for my original-original-original grocery crate hive idea, but if it aint, then I may be forced to use treated wood for my hives.

 

[Swarm]

Mrs J obviously has more hen disease. I suffer from similar. Driving back from Carmarthen the other day there were some nicely large jet black hens sporting very red headgear. "They're crows!!!!" said husband. I tracked them down......Minorcas He caught me on ebay looking at hatching eggs As I'm not allowed any more I told hime they come in bantie size (he likes banties ). He didn't say anything

Or possbly Black Leghorns? More popular than Minorcas.

This is Ermintrude and two Brown Leghorns in the pic as well. Beautiful white eggs.

 

[pargyle]

Today I realised that there is no way on this green earth that I can make a hive from non-pre-sawn planking using traditional tools only. Unless I buy a table saw, I will have to use ready-made materials for my hives. Hive experiment #3 is abandoned... it would have looked good, but I can't cut straight, so there.

In the coming week or two I'll learn to make my own frames, and if it is easy, I'll consider going for my original-original-original grocery crate hive idea, but if it aint, then I may be forced to use treated wood for my hives.

Samuel .... have you considered a cheap chop saw ... you can pick new ones up in the UK from the likes of Aldi and Lidl for silly money. They will cut a lot more accurately than you can and what's more with a couple of jigs you can replicate lengths time after time. Sounds like you need to save up a bit and invest in something like this ....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brand-New...Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item5af9a92666

They make life a lot easier ...

 

[Erichalfbee]

Or possbly Black Leghorns? More popular than Minorcas.

Swarm....you're right. I only saw them in a flash so went looking for black breeds, rather than black versions of something else.......and they come as banties......

 

[user 6228]

Bear in mind that my sensor is actually set in a pod above a piece of mesh in the crownboard above the frames ... so it is measuring heat rising from the colony above the frames and also, when the images were taken, the single sensor is actually sited to the left of the hive entrance so it's not even directly above the main part of the 'cluster'.

I have a full mesh floor in the hive as well. So - I would expect to see a temperature reflected in the sensor quite a bit lower than that in and around the colony. I'd love to be able to measure (as you do with your set up) temps actually nearer to the 'cluster' but I have a pretty infantile set up by comparison and it was, initially, only intended to give me an indication that the bees were 'surviving' .. sadly, it's become a bit more of an obsession now and I compare with external air temps as well.

I did have a second sensor sited at the bottom of the hive above the mesh floor but it stopped working and I really don't want to disturb them to find out why or replace it until it gets a bit warmer.

Mike had a look right round the hive and the only significant signs of heat on the exterior were those that you could see on the images so I don't think there's a leakage other than what you can see. I'm putting some draught excluder in the joint between the periscope 'door' and the 'frame' so that will reduce any loss from there - having said that, the bees have not propolised the joint so they are obviously not too worried about it.

I'm going to ask Mike to take some more images when the 'door' has been modified.

sensor position is critical and its a very hostile environment hot damp corrosive

 

[REDWOOD]

Made some aluminium hive number plates from a couple of recycled drinks cans

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Made some aluminium hive number plates from a couple of recycled drinks cans

Seems the numbers go up much higher than 3 there - better do a stock take before going away methinks

 

[REDWOOD]

Seems the numbers go up much higher than 3 there - better do a stock take before going away methinks

Er..... caught out, I was thinking of making a few splits from that skyscraper hive if they swarmed early

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just bottled some raspberry mead. Looks like Ribena.
Smells a little strange but tastes lovely. Will be great by Christmas