What did you do in the 'workshop' today

[Newbeeneil]

I've been thinking about insulating a standard national but hadn't got around to it. I got inspired to do something after seeing a BMH video.

I didn't want to buy expensive cork insulation so I used some 8mm poly insulation from flooring installation. I also didn't have the right plywood thickness so I ran down some thin cedar with my thicknesser.
I decided to use a 14x12 broodbox and convert to 9 frame by putting 4 x 8mm sheets in either side of the box covered by 6mm cedar. At the ends I put 2 x 8mm sheets in the external recess covered by 8mm cedar.
The top and bottom of the insulation was sealed using the appropriate thickness of cedar.

 

[Erichalfbee]

That looks really neat.
I showed Lawrence’s video to Stan thinking he’d just throw my suggestion away but he was quite interested. I might get something like that done. I was worried about losing the space but in a 14x12 it won’t matter much. I can always put a super on for a few weeks. Lawrence runs double brood.

 

[Newbeeneil]

That looks really neat.
I showed Lawrence’s video to Stan thinking he’d just throw my suggestion away but he was quite interested. I might get something like that done. I was worried about losing the space but in a 14x12 it won’t matter much. I can always put a super on for a few weeks. Lawrence runs double brood.

Yes I followed Lawrence's idea of a 9 frame but I have another to convert and I think I could make a 10 frame by putting 2x8mm in each side instead of the 4x8mm. You could do it with 20mm PIR and thin ply.

 

[pargyle]

Yes I followed Lawrence's idea of a 9 frame but I have another to convert and I think I could make a 10 frame by putting 2x8mm in each side instead of the 4x8mm. You could do it with 20mm PIR and thin ply.

It's a really good idea for timber hives .... like it. I'd go with PIR rather than cork ... same insulation value but the cork is about four times the cost !

 

[Newbeeneil]

It's a really good idea for timber hives .... like it. I'd go with PIR rather than cork ... same insulation value but the cork is about four times the cost !

I almost fell off my chair when I saw the price of cork and when you look at the comments on the video quite a few say that it's not very good exposed. PIR is more easily obtained and cheaper . I think Lawrence's reason for using cork was to make a non plastic insulated hive.
The use of 14x12 still allows me to use single boxes.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Lawrence said he was going to face the cork with something to protect it.

 

[JamezF]

Looks like a smart idea. A few thoughts that immediately struck me:

If you're using screws to retain the external insulation, why not just screw a handle on the outside at the same time?

He mentions not allowing the bees access to the cork, but it would appear they will have access to it by going along the bottom edges of the box where they can get at the corners.

I'm not too sure about how the exterior cork will perform when the weather is damp/wet. I suspect it may expand and bulge outwards regardless of the screws. Gluing it in or covering it seems like a better idea.

For comparison, the u-value of cork seems to be about 0.04 W/mK, PIR board is about 0.02 W/mK (smaller is better) and polystyrene flooring appears to be about 0.03 W/mK based on a quick search online. WRC appears to be about 0.1 W/mK though I struggled to find a figure. I think I'd be asking my friendly builder to keep save me his insulation board offcuts and giving the cork a miss.

James

 

[Newbeeneil]

Looks like a smart idea. A few thoughts that immediately struck me:

If you're using screws to retain the external insulation, why not just screw a handle on the outside at the same time?

He mentions not allowing the bees access to the cork, but it would appear they will have access to it by going along the bottom edges of the box where they can get at the corners.

I'm not too sure about how the exterior cork will perform when the weather is damp/wet. I suspect it may expand and bulge outwards regardless of the screws. Gluing it in or covering it seems like a better idea.

For comparison, the u-value of cork seems to be about 0.04 W/mK, PIR board is about 0.02 W/mK (smaller is better) and polystyrene flooring appears to be about 0.03 W/mK based on a quick search online. WRC appears to be about 0.1 W/mK though I struggled to find a figure. I think I'd be asking my friendly builder to keep save me his insulation board offcuts and giving the cork a miss.

James

I have screwed handles on the sides instead of the ends as the ends only have 6mm cedar covering the insulation.

I have cut off the bottom of the insulation in the same way I have at the top, with a strip of cedar.

I only used the flooring poly because I had it in my shed, if I had to buy it I would use 20mm PIR. ( not a thickness most builders use.)

 

[JamezF]

I have screwed handles on the sides instead of the ends as the ends only have 6mm cedar covering the insulation.

I have cut off the bottom of the insulation in the same way I have at the top, with a strip of cedar.

I only used the flooring poly because I had it in my shed, if I had to buy it I would use 20mm PIR. ( not a thickness most builders use.)

Yes, I think your changes make good sense. Getting seconds of 20mm PIR seems like a possible way forward that may help limit the cost.

James

 

[North End Bees]

Thornes sell something a bit similar.

They say: it has a thermal conductivity rating of 0.039 W/m.K. Expanded polystyrene foam, used extensively in polystyrene hives is 0.03 W/m.K

Though of course their product is much slimmer.

I'm not sure that the bees wouldn't nibble the inner cork though. They say it is wax coated.

Their outer panels aren't weather treated but they are proposing them only for winter so presume would be covered in black wraps perhaps.

 

[Newbeeneil]

I've been thinking about insulating a standard national but hadn't got around to it. I got inspired to do something after seeing a BMH video.

I didn't want to buy expensive cork insulation so I used some 8mm poly insulation from flooring installation. I also didn't have the right plywood thickness so I ran down some thin cedar with my thicknesser.
I decided to use a 14x12 broodbox and convert to 9 frame by putting 4 x 8mm sheets in either side of the box covered by 6mm cedar. At the ends I put 2 x 8mm sheets in the external recess covered by 8mm cedar.
The top and bottom of the insulation was sealed using the appropriate thickness of cedar.

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I started on the next insulated 14x12 this afternoon. I'm going to cover the polystyrene with correx this time to see if it works as well. I should have no trouble locating this one in the dark, the Correx is from a reflective temporary road sign!

 

[Curly green finger's]

Just wondering what folk think about using inspection boards as inner covers for poly nucs? There's space.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

but why though?

 

[Curly green finger's]

but why though?

To stop them propolising the roof to the frames I'm already using polythene.
Not so much a problem with the deep roofs but the thin ones are a pita.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

To stop them propolising the roof to the frames

but do they? I've been using these nucs since Maisie's first sold them and have never had an incidence of frames being propolised to the roof. In fact I had need to take the roof off one nuc this afternoon which hasn'tbeen touched since autumn feeding, and it came off without needing to be forced at all.
It's a non problem

 

[Curly green finger's]

but do they? I've been using these nucs since Maisie's first sold them and have never had an incidence of frames being propolised to the roof. In fact I had need to take the roof off one nuc this afternoon which hasn'tbeen touched since autumn feeding, and it came off without needing to be forced at all.
It's a non problem

Well I've had a few last season not loads but not good when you go to take the roof of and frames are attached to the roof.
You say you've never had that problem my bees must love there propolis then.
As I said it's the thin poly roofs

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

As I said it's the thin poly roofs

90% of my roofs are the original ones

 

[rolande]

Well I've had a few last season not loads but not good when you go to take the roof of and frames are attached to the roof.
You say you've never had that problem my bees must love there propolis then.
As I said it's the thin poly roofs

We only have 3 poly nucs that get any use. Not the same brand as yours admittedly but we've never used inner covers despite the fact that they were supplied with nice polycarb sheets. Following advice on this forum some years ago we simply place one hand flat in the middle of the roof and pull up with the other hand. Releases the roof from the frames nicely.

Perhaps your roofs aren't flexible enough to do that. Perhaps you could use propolis net as an inner cover (seem to remember you were planning to start harvesting the stuff).

 

[Michael Palmer]

We've had a busy winter in the wood shop. Winter is still in full force here...we got 10" of snow yesterday and this morning -1F. Anyway, been busy with winter shop work. Cleaned up 850 frames...knocked out the old comb and cleaned up the frames to receive new foundation...wax dipped plastic with my own capping wax. Assembled 1000 deep frames and 1000 medium frames. Built 50 nuc supers. All the woodwork done with 1x12 White Pine boards. Then, yesterday, I finished the new 2-way mating nucs. I posted a photo last year about the new 2-ways that are replacing the old style 4-way. The significantly increases to % return of mated queens. With this group of 64, half of the 4-ways will be replaced. Looking forward to continuing the increased mating success with this new style. There is an internal follower that divides the cavity into 2 chambers, each with its own entrance.

 

[Newbeeneil]

Went to B&Q to pick up a 150litre plastic box to disinfect some poly equipment I have. Mixed up 80litres of bleach mixture as per the NBU spec and tried to "sink" a langstroth poly nuc including the roof and floor!
Just for reference to anyone trying this in the future it takes 16 house bricks to get it all under water!!!!

https://www.diy.com/departments/wha...ropylene-xxl-storage-box/5057604457209_BQ.prd