varoa treatment

[sprocker]

What varroa treatment can i do now if any

 

[Arfermo]

Why do any at this time of year? This is the point in time when brood rearing is in full swing and any treatments should have already been done - thmol in Autumn, oxalic mid winter. Get hold of BBKA pdf "Managing Varroa" and digest it.

 

[sprocker]

Cheers why I ask is i just went back to a farm I keep my bees on and I was just tidying around a bit and geting the place sorted for when i bring my colonys back up and a swarm must of came in last year when I had taken mine home just wondered if their was owt I could do

 

[pargyle]

Cheers why I ask is i just went back to a farm I keep my bees on and I was just tidying around a bit and geting the place sorted for when i bring my colonys back up and a swarm must of came in last year when I had taken mine home just wondered if their was owt I could do

Why ? Do they need it ? A swarm is probably about the lowest level you'll ever see varroa .. have you checked they are infested ? Inspection board would be a good start ...

 

[BeeJayBee]

It's still too cool for MAQS to work properly, same with thymol. If you are determined to treat now you would probably have to get some Apivar from either the Bee Vet in Devon or Bridge Vets in Dumfries.

The most sensible thing would probably be to wait a few weeks and do a shook swarm onto fresh frames.

 

[Finman]

.
If you have not a real reason to treat varroa, let it be then. You may make more harm than good.

Real reason is than varroa is arranging a catastrophe in your hive.

When you open capped drone pupae, you will get a hint, what is the contamination.

 

[Finman]

The most sensible thing would probably be to wait a few weeks and do a shook swarm onto fresh frames.

Oh boy. Then you are worse than varroa. Wait few weeks anf then destroy the hive! Fresh frames!
There is no such treatment in varroa.

It better first know, how much mites exist in the hive. And no need to paint extreme treatments and drama before that.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Why ? Do they need it ? A swarm is probably about the lowest level you'll ever see varroa .. have you checked they are infested ? Inspection board would be a good start ...

I had a swarm arrive last year and they have the highest dwv and k wing of all my colonies. Also had the highest varroa drop, maybe because they came from hives that were not treated.

 

[Nige.Coll]

Swarm must have came in ?
Do you store equipment with open entrances and frames in ?
If yes go and stand in the corner for an hour.

As far as treatment goes,
Do they have a high mite drop ?
Do they have dwv or any other varroa caused deformities ?
If the answer is NO then leave them alone until later in the year.

If yes and it is bad enough to need treatment NOW then your options are limited atm.
Vet prescribed treatment as already suggested.
Vapourise OA as per guidelines on the forum.
Shook swarm and add a frame of open brood with well developed larvae, remove after bees have sealed the cells to try and trap phoretic mites.
Shook swarm is a bit drastic as it will set the colony back a month and at this time of year a bit risky. Not a great thing to do for sh1ts and giggles as your bees are coming out of winter.

 

[Finman]

I had a swarm arrive last year and they have .

But every one should nurse their hives according their own situation and not according with neighbours.

Shook swarm is not a way to nurse mite problem. It is a way to destroy the hive.

.

 

[mbc]

But every one should nurse their hives according their own situation and not according with neighbours.

Shook swarm is not a way to nurse mite problem. It is a way to destroy the hive.

.

Shook swarm has its place, I use them to restock dead outs.

 

[Nige.Coll]

But every one should nurse their hives according their own situation and not according with neighbours.

Shook swarm is not a way to nurse mite problem. It is a way to destroy the hive.

.

I thought I said shook swarm wasnt a good thing to do at this time. More of a last resort.

 

[Finman]

Shook swarm has its place, I use them to restock dead outs.

Perhaps, but I am not offering it first, when some one is generally asking, can I do something to varroa.

 

[pargyle]

I had a swarm arrive last year and they have the highest dwv and k wing of all my colonies. Also had the highest varroa drop, maybe because they came from hives that were not treated.

Well - there's always the exception in beekeeping ? But, the reality is that the only mites you get in a swarm are the phoretic ones and the bees that leave the hive in a swarm tend to be principally the foragers and varroa mites prefer to live on the back of nurse bees where they can be ready to nip into a soon to be sealed brood cell. So ... it is a bit unusual to find a swarm riddled with varroa.

... However, many colonies have DWV inherent to some extent - it's only the added presence of varroa that spreads and it seems compounds the disease and a real problem evolves. As Finman frequently tells us varroa breed at a tremendous rate and the transition from healthy colony to terminal decline can be very rapid if the varroa problem is not tackled.

There is an interesting study here:

http://jgv.sgmjournals.org/content/90/2/463.full

Where the conclusions appear to be that the DWV virus is actually replicated in the varroa mites and it is the amount of the virus passed on to the bee larvae by the mite that leads to the manifestation of wing deformity. The DWV virus on it's own without the presence of varroa is something a colony can cope with.

If your swarm was a colony already infected with DWV (although not evident in deformed wings) and if the varroa load was permitted to proliferate then you would soon have the symptoms you describe.

But ... I totally agree that before treating for varroa, at this time of the year, some serious investigation should be carried out - the very least of which should be an inspection board in for a week or so .. followed by either sugar roll or alcohol wash if the drop rate on the board is high and/or drone cell uncapping.

There are some unanswered questions from the OP which may give a better idea of a way forward - not least of which is whether they are actually in a box with frames of comb or whether they have just built free comb in an empty box ... more information required at present I think.

 

[Finman]

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I planned to treat my hives when I make AS in presence of queen cells.
It happened in two years, that at same time it was massive nectar flow from raspberry. Not good idea to pump oxalic acid on bees when they brought at same several kilos nectar per day to hive.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

... and the bees that leave the hive in a swarm tend to be principally the foragers and varroa mites prefer to live on the back of nurse bees where they can be ready to nip into a soon to be sealed brood cell. .....

I'm not sure that this is universally true. I quote for my source Wally Shaw's "The Many Uses of the Snelgrove Board" Part 4: " ... contrary to popular opinion, a natural swarm contains relatively few dedicated foragers (the oldest bees in a colony) but is rich in younger bees, many of which have little or no previous experience of flying. Studies have shown that up to 70% of worker bees less than 10 days old depart with the prime swarm.
If you watch a hive in the process of swarming you can see some of this happening. Incoming foragers, ignoring the mayhem that surrounds them, can be seen struggling to get back into the hive against the flow of bees. Similarly, if you look at the newly settled swarm, you will usually see a few foragers with loads of pollen on their hind legs but a few minutes later they will have disappeared – presumably they realise they have no business there and have returned home.
The process by which the colony splits during the formation of a natural swarm – which bees go and which bees stay - is not understood. Presumably it is an instinctive, age-related response to the triggering buzz that runs across the comb faces executed by the bees that are organising the swarming process (whoever they are). Some bees are recruited to the swarm and others hold back and provide the garrison for the home colony. The way a colony splits during a cast swarm may be even more complex but, again, virtually nothing is known about this.
When one thinks about the age composition of a natural swarm it makes perfect sense. What use are older bees to a swarm? A foraging bee has probably got only a few days more to live and what the swarm needs is bees that will survive a minimum of 3 weeks (and more typically 4 weeks) until there can be any new recruits. When the swarm settles in its new home it has to re-deploy its labour force to do the most urgent tasks that face it; into wax makers/comb builders and foragers, the latter to keep the wax makers well supplied with nectar. As soon as there is comb available and the queen starts to lay again some nurse bees will have to come on duty."

That seems to make perfect sense to me.

IF bees in natural swarms have less mites than those left behind, it must be some reason other than the predominance of foraging bees. We could speculate as to the reason but it really needs some proper research. On the other hand, maybe swarms do not carry a significantly different mite load compared to the parent colony.

CVB

 

[masterBK]

As I have mentioned before in the past, I treat all swarms collected about 4 or 5 days after hiving them (ie before they have brood at the sealing stage) with oxalic acid and count the mite drop. Generally there are about 70 to 120 Varroa mites per swarm (although I have had a few swarms with less than 10 mites mostly my own!). Relative to the size of the swarm you find more mites in casts (this is to be expected as when the cast swarms issue there is no open brood in the parent colony for the mites to go into). An alternative approach if you don't like the idea of using oxalic acid is to dust the swarm in the box/skep etc you collected them in with icing sugar before hiving them to remove as many phoretic mites as possible.

 

[Finman]

I'm not sure that this is universally true. I quote for my source Wally Shaw's "The Many Uses of the Snelgrove Board" Part 4: " ... contrary to popular opinion, a natural swarm contains relatively few dedicated foragers (the oldest bees in a colony) but is rich in younger be

That seems to make perfect sense to me.

IF bees in natural swarms have less mites than those left behind, it must be some reason other than the predominance of foraging bees. We could speculate as to the reason but it really needs some proper research. O.

CVB

80% of mites are under brood cappings during brooding time.
What is mite load of swarm, research will never explain it. And you cannot ask it from internet. It is like you ask from internet, should I add air into my tyres.

When you treat swarm against varroa, you will know that. If you do not treat, you just hope, that it has zero mites.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

80% of mites are under brood cappings during brooding time.
What is mite load of swarm, research will never explain it. And you cannot ask it from internet. It is like you ask from internet, should I add air into my tyres.

When you treat swarm against varroa, you will know that. If you do not treat, you just hope, that it has zero mites.

The point I was trying, unsuccessfully apparently, to make is that, if Wally Shaw is correct, the swarm will have more nurse bees than foragers not the other way round. We can speculate whether this means more or less phoretic mites leave a colony with the swarm but treating a swarm early is clearly a sensible precaution.

Now I must go out and add air into my tyres.

CVB

 

[Finman]

The point I was trying, unsuccessfully apparently, to make is that, if Wally Shaw is correct, the swarm will have more nurse bees than foragers not the other way round. We can speculate whether this means more or less phoretic mites leave a colony with the swarm but treating a swarm early is clearly a sensible precaution.

Now I must go out and add air into my tyres.

CVB

The reason for age stucture is the history. After winter cluster is small, and then there is a period when old are all dead and all are young. Huge amount of young bees emerge every day.

Then comes swarming time. Hive is full or young bees. Hive bees are under 3 weeks old.

Then a swarm leaves, and you see it that foragers have leaved too. Not much traffic in hive next day. And if ypu hsve hive on balance, weight rise stops for long time.

Second swarm has more young bees, because older bees left mainly with primary swarm.

But during that time mites have normal cycle to capped brood and out with emerged bees.
.