Using frames in a horizontal hive?

[JWF]

Really impressed, the more you look at it the cleverer it is. Possibility of three way split etc.
Might give it a go later in the year!
Thanks for sharing
E

The retractable frame holder in the roof is rather nifty too

 

[Finman]

You are confirming what Finman says, that they have trouble managing the honey stores. They prefer to store vertically above the brood frames in a temperate climate, but have no where to store it in a long hive; unless you add a super above.
Tell me you get 10 frames of honey only either end of the brood nest and I'll reconsider.
In our British climate bees preferred natural nest arrangement is a vertical nest.
Very different in the tropics where heat retention in winter and clustering are much less of an issue.

Our long hives used supers. Roofs were telescope, that you may put for example 2 supers.

But if you have back pains, you use mere horizontal frames. And old people use to have those pains.

But nowadays, when beekeepers want to save their back, they use mere light super boxes in the hive. And it is langstroth medium boxes. And poly box itself helps with its weight.

 

[pargyle]

You are confirming what Finman says, that they have trouble managing the honey stores. They prefer to store vertically above the brood frames in a temperate climate, but have no where to store it in a long hive; unless you add a super above.
Tell me you get 10 frames of honey only either end of the brood nest and I'll reconsider.

Have you never seen a colony that has taken up residence in somewhere that they can only expand sideways ? As in a long hive - they store honey laterally.

I can't say I've had 10 frames either side of the brood nest but I've had four or five 14 x 12's filled either side and honey over the brood nest ...

I know that bees do well in a long hive but I will admit that it's not a great honey producer - I don't think it's anything to do with the ability of bees to manage their honey - I think it's more about the fact that expanding laterally gives them a better idea of what they have stored. In a tree trunk they would only be able to store as far as the cavity would allow be it upwards or sideways - as beekeepers we add supers and perhaps it is the desire to fill the available space above that encourages the bees to overproduce above and beyond their actual needs ?

Perhaps, as beekeepers, we do them a disservice by encouraging gross overproduction of honey ?

 

[Finman]

.
However, longhive is not that bad, that it underproduce honey.
.

 

[Beefriendly]

but I will admit that it's not a great honey producer - I don't think it's anything to do with the ability of bees to manage their honey

Really!
Not even any excess honey when you place them on your fictitious leylines?

 

[Newbeeneil]

Brilliant looking hive Pargyle,
I see that the entrances are in the long side but when I have seen hives under floors they seem to store honey away from the entrance. If the entrance were at the ends wouldn't it encourage the bees to orientate the combs from the entrance back?

 

[pargyle]

Brilliant looking hive Pargyle,
I see that the entrances are in the long side but when I have seen hives under floors they seem to store honey away from the entrance. If the entrance were at the ends wouldn't it encourage the bees to orientate the combs from the entrance back?

Quite possibly ... I tend to use the entrances at the end when I split the colony and in those instances the brood tends to be nearer the entrances and the stores to the 'rear' of the brood area. When I'm operating it as a single colony the brood, again, tends to be next to the entrance and the stores on the outer frames.

But .. bear in mind this is a very 'warm' hive. I seal the crownboards to the top of the hive with aluminium tape and the walls and roof space are full of insulation. Whilst there is a mesh floor it is protected from draughts by the 'drawer' under the hive. The central entrance is protected with a 'periscope' entrance so, whilst the bees are entering at the top of the hive there is no heat loss from the entrance.

It may encourage the bees to behave in a different way ... I may try running a single colony with an entrance at one end this year and see what happens.

 

[pargyle]

Really!
Not even any excess honey when you place them on your fictitious leylines?

Trip trap trip trap ... can I hear something muttering under the bridge ?

It depends on what you call 'excess honey' .. in a good year they have made up to about 12 almost full 14 x 12 frames in a season ... so what's that - about 80lbs of honey if it was extracted. I tend to use these frames as bee food rather than honey for humans so I don't really keep a track of it.

Now, please, back under your bridge and let those people with some interest in an alternative way of keeping bees get on with it ...

 

[Beefriendly]

Now, please, back under your bridge and let those people with etcetc Blah Blah..

I'll treat your clearly provocative words with the contempt they deserve.

 

[pargyle]

I'll treat your clearly provocative words with the contempt they deserve.

Kettle, saucepan, black ??? Post #25 ....

 

[Gwr]

I run 3 long hives in wood which are designed to take 22 off 14x12 frames with 1 entrances on either long side. ( it takes a standard entrance reducer ). It has a fully removable and sealed centre divider, plus it has a gabled roof that I slid off towards either side which then rests on the ground and side of the hive and that gives me the benefit that I don’t have to lift the roof or carry its weight - old age and a bad back!

I can put 2 full-size supers on it as high as they need be, as the roof is telescopic, but I also have a lot 5 frame supers which allow me to put 4 of them on there and are easy to lift ( or less than 4 supers using 5 frame sized crown boards to close off the none supered parts. The 5 frame supers are what I use on my 5 frame nucs, so I have plenty. I’ve even put 5 frame brood boxes on in the past when the Heather honey flow was good.

I use the long hives for honey production but I got them for thier preliminary rolls to make very big colonies to bolster up weaker hives without having to lift box after box, and they are really easy to split to stop swarming if need be - all pretty much without lifting a box.

The disadvantage to them though is if used as a single hive or with different size colonies is the fact that if you have to put a super on the big colony, you also have to put a super box on the other side to hold the roof straight ( in this case I put the super on top of the crown board on the small or empty side to keep the heat down below whilst putting the crown board on top of the super on the good side).

I enjoy the change having a few different hives bring to the mix when working my long hives and I think that all hive designs have a place in today’s apiary. As long as the bees are being looked after, I stand by my comments elsewhere that there is no right or wrong way to this beekeeping malarkey, it’s all about what the individual beekeeper want to do themselves and not secome to pressure from other so called experts forcing thier way - or no way attitude.

 

[Finman]

.
Horizontal hives are very popular in eastern Europe. Colonies are quite small. But frames are big Dadants. The system needs propably something else too than mere horizontal hive.

Queens cannot be good layers. Otherwise they fill the whole hive with brood.
.

 

[Podilia]

.
Horizontal hives are very popular in eastern Europe. Colonies are quite small. But frames are big Dadants. The system needs propably something else too than mere horizontal hive.

Queens cannot be good layers. Otherwise they fill the whole hive with brood.
.

You're right. My first hives were horizantal with 20-24 dadan frames. Something like this:
I don't have them any more for the reason of transportation. As for queens, you know, even if a queen is a good one when honey flow starts bees quickly fill all combs limiting a queen so there may be no brood or very few capped brood. At the and of a season a colony may become small in a hive full of honey.

 

[Helen]

I use slightly modified dartingtons. 14x12 frames, sized to fit 2 national supers on top (dartingtons designed to take 4 1/2 sized supers on top of brood box - slightly longer than 2 national supers). Roof consists of 2 parts, each covering a super, so no need to have equal numbers of supers on each side. Underfloor entrance each end, each of which can be closed off. I clad each long side with 50mm celotex which fits nicely into the hive design.

I dont need to move them, so no problem re weight. However, I moved 2 last week to an out apiary, and it was simple - undo 1 bolt on each leg, the leg swings up and acts as an effective carry bar. 2 people to move though.

Lots of info on them on Thornes website and videos on them. Construction guide can be found sometimes on the net.

 

[oliver90owner]

Modified? That is funny - I always used two National shallows on my Dartingtons with no problem.

Two ‘half supers’ were designed, by Robin, to be the same width as a normal National box. The side walls were of only 5, 6 or 8mm ply for that very reason (think here two extra side walls and two extra bee spaces, as well).