Two Queens

[BeeJuice]

I've just done an inspection of my hives (9th October) and found two queens in one hive.

I can't tell whether the new queen has mated but assume that the bees have decided it was time to replace the existing queen.

It was 20 degrees today and is forecast to be even warmer tomorrow. Plenty of drones around. So what's the best plan? Do nothing? Kill one of the queens - if so, which one?

Any advice gratefully received.

 

[birdsandbees]

that is what is referred to as a perfect Supercedure, clever bees keeping the old queen as an insurance.

you may find that they keep the old queen until Spring, whether you remove one is up to you but if it were me I'd just let them decide what to do.

 

[BeeJuice]

That sounds like a good plan. In that case, I'll leave them to it and let the bees decide... many thanks..

 

[beeno]

The deed is done. Congrats. One of my hives had a lot of drones flying today. Got a bit concerned, but hive had lots of worker brood, so if they have a virgin as well needing mating good luck to them.

 

[enrico]

Don't remove either. Try and check as soon as possible next year to make sure you haven't been left with an unmated queen who is a drone layer.
E

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Leave well alone - you would be surprised how many beekeepers who have colonies that overwinter with two (or even more) queens, they will sort it all out late spring.
I had at least five colonies which, on the first inspections this year had more than one queen - one went until midsummer before sorting themselves out.

 

[oliver90owner]

The new queen may not be mated and the old queen may be nearing the end of her useful life. So removing one would be a lottery.

Still plenty of time for the new to get mated if she is a virgin - despite the repeated claims of one poster in this thread.

The bees are not stupid - they will make the appropriate choice when necessary.

It might still mean you are left with a drone layer in the spring because the new queen may not get mated and the old queen might use up the last of her sperm store - who knows, so leave them to it.

Just thinking of, or writing down, the outcome possibilities, of any particular action (removal of either of the queens), would have sorted your dilema in less than about five minutes, I would suggest.

Most dilemas are easily sorted in this way. That is what makes beekeeping so easy for the thinkers - and so difficult for the non-thinkers.

 

[BeeJuice]

Just thinking of, or writing down, the outcome possibilities, of any particular action (removal of either of the queens), would have sorted your dilema in less than about five minutes, I would suggest.

Most dilemas are easily sorted in this way. That is what makes beekeeping so easy for the thinkers - and so difficult for the non-thinkers.

I did consider my dilemma and I wrote down the options and possible outcomes in my post. As a novice bee keeper (in my third year) I am happy to ask for help - and it was gratefully received within about two minutes of my posting on the forum.

If YOU don't want to help, don't - I shan't miss your smug, unhelpful comments.

 

[Finman]

that is what is referred to as a perfect Supercedure, clever bees keeping the old queen as an insurance.

.

Sometimes and sometimes not.

 

[For want of a better word]

Sometimes and sometimes not.

Not unusual to have two queens in same colony laying... mother and daughter or sisters possibly. Reason for changing colour each time you see a "new queen"
I used red and pink and mauve this season!
Yet to see three queens in a colony laying tho!!

Chons da

 

[Finman]

Not unusual to have two queens in same colony laying...

Chons da

I have seen then some, but not many during 55 years. IT is not standard happening.

Two years ago I tried to change a Queen. I killed an old Queen and I put a new one. They killed it. IT appeared that there were two laying queens.

 

[Poly Hive]

I was told of a situation where the sup ran for over 18 months. Both marked and clipped so a genuine length of time.

Let the bees sort it out themselves is the safest approach here.

Past time to be poling around too in my view.

PH

 

[Into the lions den]

I was told of a situation where the sup ran for over 18 months. Both marked and clipped so a genuine length of time.

Let the bees sort it out themselves is the safest approach here.

Past time to be poling around too in my view.

PH

That my one Poly? Had 3 generations present at one time. Grandma, Mum, and a VQ. The old two vanished once VQ was no longer V and started laying.

2 queens is quite common...we reckon about 5% of them are like that in spring, but then its something of a special case as we reunite splits to mothers in late summer without selecting which queen to leave if both OK.

The strange on with the 3 queens was not like that, was simply a single hive never united.

 

[beeno]

2 queens is quite common...we reckon about 5% of them are like that in spring, but then its something of a special case as we reunite splits to mothers in late summer without selecting which queen to leave if both OK.

Interesting as I did that as late unite supersedure daughter to mother that had become drone layer (could not find her). Good worker brood pattern now. I guess the bees would have got rid of a drone layer in those circumstances.

 

[oliver90owner]

Yeah,right.

The first reply you got was about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

whether you remove one is up to you is NOT an acceptable suggestion. I explained that if you had the sense to understand my post.

It would seem that, if looking at the possible outcomes (of removing one of the queens) you could not conclude that removing either could lead to a colony with only a drone layer later on, you are definitely not a thinker!

Simple .

Old queen retained - possible outcomes are 1) she is good or 2) she will fail imminently. You can assign the risk or probability of either course, but you getting it wrong will destroy the colony.

New queen retained - Possibilities are 1) may be, or may get, mated and lay worker brood or 2) may not get mated and become a drone layer. Getting it wrong will destroy your colony.

You are patently unable to ascertain which outcomes would occur, should you adopt either choice.

Remaining option is leaving it to the bees. Would they choose to get rid of a new queen (why produce one, if they didn’t want her)? Would they get rid of their only egg layer (the old queen), should that new queen become a drone layer? Not likely as that is their only hope of continuing as a colony and bees are not stupid.

Final outcome could be a failed old queen and an unmated new queen - that would spell death to the colony and could not be avoided by them or you.

Get it yet? Just a little thought soon gives the obvious answer.

If you don’t want to try to help yourself, learn to help yourself and don’t take notice of help, then you are not a proper beekeeper and will forever blunder on blindly. Do yourself a favour and engage any grey cells you might have.

 

[masterBK]

Another example of how to win friends and influence people! The information provided is good but I'm sure you know that it is possible to inform without the added rudeness. Think twice and then be nice.

 

[Poly Hive]

No Murray that was up north at Conon.

PH

 

[birdsandbees]

Yeah,right.
The first reply you got was about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

I think what I said was (and this was preemptive of someone else coming out with their preference) its up to you but if it were me I'd leave them to sort it out themselves. correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that exactly what you said!

I have heard of others recommending removal of the new queen in preference of the original one, that's their choice but either way it's a gamble.

why not try reading things properly before trying to be Mr I'm clever as I think, shame you don't read as well as you think!

 

[Finman]

I have heard of others recommending removal of the new queen in preference of the original one, that's their choice but either way it's a gamble.
!

Their wrong choice.

If you take the new Queen off, what bees are trying to replace, bees replace it in winter and in spring you have a drone layer in the hive.

 

[Finman]

.
Many beekeepers ask, which Queen is going to stay and which die, young or old?


A colony renew its Queen for some reason. IT gets a new Queen.

What idea biologically is then to kill the new and save the old? IT would be a suicide of the colony.