Treatment Free doesn't work

[Erichalfbee]

Have these 4-6 year old colonies the original queens?

 

[elainemary]

I too find this. But spring is when they want drone comb - if they don't have it then they jam the stuff in all sorts of silly places. And I want the drone proportion to be as natural as possible. So I compromise with them. When adding frames, I give about 50/50 foundationless and worker foundation. The foundationless are indeed often drawn as entire sheets of drone comb, which is fine. I view it as a "one for you, one for me" approach.

Hopefully, in future years, when the hives contain lots of drone comb anyway (due to me adding foundationless over the years), they will become more relaxed about foundationless and use it to draw worker comb as much as drone comb. At that point I will switch entirely to foundationless.

It’s interesting observing the bees own priorities / preferences versus ours. I have also seen this preference for drawing drone from foundationless or beneath a super early in the season. Queen also prefers to lay drone in drone drawn super frames if leave nadired supers too long, not laying in worker frames. Yet later in the summer getting the colony to draw drone comb in supers is difficult - they definitely prefer drawing worker and will fill drone super combs last.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It’s interesting observing the bees own priorities / preferences versus ours. I have also seen this preference for drawing drone from foundationless or beneath a super early in the season. Queen also prefers to lay drone in drone drawn super frames if leave nadired supers too long, not laying in worker frames. Yet later in the summer getting the colony to draw drone comb in supers is difficult - they definitely prefer drawing worker and will fill drone super combs last.

I popped in a wired starter strip frame into the middle of a going bonkers colony a couple of weeks ago and both sides are filled with drones

 

[pargyle]

Have these 4-6 year old colonies the original queens?

Trigger's broom ?

 

[jeff33]

For what it's worth after 143 comments, a beek has 4 hives in the field next to mine. Doesn't treat them and 3/4 didn't make it through the winter. Last year he bought 2 nucs as his bees died in the winter.... you would think sense would prevail?!

 

[robinharman]

Agree.
I had just under 150 colonies going into autumn (not winter).
Treated with Apitraz in the autumn.
Came out of winter with around 135, most of which are now doubled brooded with 4+ supers and will need to start extracting next week.
Losses were drone laying queens and a couple of laying workers.
I fully respect those trying no treatment but really cannot take the losses that people have suffered 21/22 winter.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Have these 4-6 year old colonies the original queens?

I very much doubt it. But I don't have a clue. That's beework. My job is collecting the honey, processing and selling it.

 

[Anduril]

I very much doubt it. But I don't have a clue. That's beewoork. My job is collecting the honey, processing and selling it.

I assume you don't mark your queens!

 

[Beesnaturally]

I assume you don't mark your queens!

I don't even know if there are queens in there until I see eggs.

Quite a culture shock for you this isn't it?

 

[Anduril]

I don't even know if there are queens in there until I see eggs.

Quite a culture shock for you this isn't it?

Someone I'm mentoring cannot see eggs, so you're not the first.

 

[Wilco]

I don't even know if there are queens in there until I see eggs.

Quite a culture shock for you this isn't it?

How often do you inspect?

 

[Beesnaturally]

Someone I'm mentoring cannot see eggs, so you're not the first.

Eh?

 

[Anduril]

Eh?

Lol, just similarities.

 

[Beesnaturally]

How often do you inspect?

It varies with the season of course. And it's changed over time. This year I'm making a (not entirely successful) effort to find queen cells. If I find any I will break up the hive. I'm also culling lost causes, two so far this year. I've kept drone layers going through spring, but too much sackbrood and/or chalkbrood is a death sentence. In the past I've let them go, and they've often surprised me. They produced nothing for a couple of seasons, then boomed beautifully, and I've put this down to a successful succession. But now I want to use the proven hives to make more high yielding hives, so I'm tidying up. It's been a process, through live and let die (but don't kill) to, now, I hope the potential for feeding genes from a breeding core to more out-apiaries - a more normal operation, that will however remain treatment-free.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Lol, just similarities.

Eh, again?

 

[Wilco]

It varies with the season of course. And it's changed over time. This year I'm making a (not entirely successful) effort to find queen cells. If I find any I will break up the hive. I'm also culling lost causes, two so far this year. I've kept drone layers going through spring, but too much sackbrood and/or chalkbrood is a death sentence. In the past I've let them go, and they've often surprised me. They produced nothing for a couple of seasons, then boomed beautifully, and I've put this down to a successful succession. But now I want to use the proven hives to make more high yielding hives, so I'm tidying up. It's been a process, through live and let die (but don't kill) to, now, I hope the potential for feeding genes from a breeding core to more out-apiaries - a more normal operation, that will however remain treatment-free.

How often are you inspecting at the moment?

Mine are making plenty of QCs!

 

[Anduril]

Eh, again?

Well you did you don't know if there are queens in there until you see eggs. My mentee knows there is a queen in there when he sees larvae.

 

[Beesnaturally]

How often are you inspecting at the moment?

Mine are making plenty of QCs!

I'm not that rigid. When I can. My visits have been geared around the need to add lifts, and that has been conditioned by weather. There are many balls in the air, always, and I drop some. I've always tried to keep swarming down by keeping them building wax, and giving the queen the run of the hive. I've always picked up quite a few by having plenty of bait hive around. Equally I've often lost swarms and had no idea it has happened. Right now the weather has broken, there is a flow on, and while I'm adding lifts I'm looking for cells. But I've only found one hive so far, who had the cheek to swarm the moment I turned up, while I was checking my mails. They were badly compressed. Worst part was I couldn't follow them and lost them. Strangely, I thought, they used brown wax, when there is plenty of new wax available I put three out of five cells on a couple of frames of brood in a nuc, and shoved the mother hive over.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Well you did you don't know if there are queens in there until you see eggs. My mentee knows there is a queen in there when he sees larvae.

Ah, got you!

 

[rolande]

But I've only found one hive so far, who had the cheek to swarm the moment I turned up, while I was checking my mails.

Best to check mail early in the morning or later in the evening at this time of year.